Nikon announces full frame mirrorless cameras - Z6 and Z7

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Originally Posted by rpcrowe

I think that Nikon might have benefited by introducing an entry level consumer crop sensor mirrorless camera before they shot their load on the Z-series cameras...

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They need to stop the bleeding. Sony sold more full-frame digital cameras (units and revenue) than anyone else in the first half of 2018...and they are the new kid on the block!! For every enthusiast who hangs out on a site like this, there's probably a hundred others who just go out and buy cameras, and they are buying Sony's.

Although I won’t be purchasing one: too much money for my budget and photographic uses, I do commend Nikon for (finally) getting into the FF market with a mirrorless model. If I were to consider one, I would wait for firmware updates. The new mount was, in my opinion, a requirement. You don’t, as they say, put new wine in old wine skins.

From the specs, these two models, are superior to Canon’s efforts, but we shall see how that shakes out. The fat lady is still warming up the vocal cords.

Of course, Sony has a huge lead as the only maker with both cropped and FF sensors.

"From the specs, these two models, are superior to Canon’s efforts, but we shall see how that shakes out. The fat lady is still warming up the vocal cords."

Of course, any full frame offering would be "superior" to Canon's efforts in that field. Since Canon has not offered a full frame mirrorless camera - YET! And, looking at the lack of improvements of the 6D2 over the 6D that it replaced, I am not holding my breath for a Canon camera or cameras which will be superior to Sony A7Riii and A7iii. However, some of the features of the M-50 offer a glimmer of hope long those lines.

However, despite what the Nikon fanboys are touting, Canon is not the company that Nikon needs to fight for superiority in the field of full-frame mirrorless cameras; that company is Sony. What it looks like from the specs is that the much touted Z-cameras come in a not so close second to the Sony A7-Riii and A7iii. And... the old saying is that "Close only counts in horseshoes and hand granades:D"

There are so many folks out there, on the Internet, trying to justify the lack of a second memory card slot and eye detect auto focus and, excusing other problems noted on the Z-cameras, that they sound like Donald Trump supporters trying to justify his ludicrous remarks and actions.

Let's be honest ladies and gentlemen: Do you absolutely NEED eye detect AF - of course not! Do you absolutely Need a back up memory card - of course not (that is until your primary card is corrupted). On one site, a Nikon fanboy writes that photographers have been working for decades with a single card slot and without eye AF and have seemed to do O.K.

Well, I worked for decades using a 4 x 5 inch press camera with cut film and did just fine with that equipment. However, I certainly wound not want to show up at a wedding in 2018 carrying a Speed Graphic.

Over at DPReview, there is a relatively new forum for Nikon Z cameras. Already there are over 400 threads totaling over 6000 posts on this forum!! I find it quite amazing how carried away a lot of the posters are.:eek: The one card issue features prominently!

Dave

As a newcomer I detect the view Sony and their mirrorless cameras do not seriously compete with the big two. However it appears, that Nikon does believe that there is a chance that mirrorless will erode their market share and represents the future. Hence their new mirrorless models. My opinion is that Sony will use this as a confirmation that they are onto a winner. They listen to their customers and the competition from the big two will make them intensify development. In the USA 4 of 10 full frame cameras are sold by Sony. In addition Sony now has produced some great lenses topped by their G Master series and other manufacturers are making high quality emount lenses e.g.Sigma’s ART lenses. In the end the competition between the companies will only benefit the consumer.

IMHO All the hype about whether the Z-series has this or that feature is so typical of the whole camera industry. The fact is that at the level we are looking at in camera technology any well-known camera manufacturer makes a decent camera. People argue and complain as if one feature being there or not will ruin their photographic experience and the quality of their images. This continuous anguish is, I think, fueled by the manufacturers themselves because people keep buying new cameras in the search for the holy grail of technology.

People threaten to abandon a brand because a body is, for the time being, perceived as being inferior to others for one or more reasons. As I and others have noted that can be an expensive habit. The thing is that the "leader" can change very quickly as new tech is developed by different manufacturers. For me the glass is the biggest issue in looking at a brand, because lenses will inevitably outlive bodies and decent glass is often more expensive than the bodies themselves. It is very likely that the new S mount will generate a whole bunch of adapters so that users can put their Nikon S lenses on another brand, or vice versa. Nikon makes great lenses (and I say that as a Canon user in the main), and their legacy lenses will numerically dominant for a long time to come.

I am not holding my breath for the demise or dominance of Nikon based on this body.

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Originally Posted by rpcrowe

"From the specs, these two models, are superior to Canon’s efforts, but we shall see how that shakes out. The fat lady is still warming up the vocal cords."

Of course, any full frame offering would be "superior" to Canon's efforts in that field. Since Canon has not offered a full frame mirrorless camera - YET! And, looking at the lack of improvements of the 6D2 over the 6D that it replaced, I am not holding my breath for a Canon camera or cameras which will be superior to Sony A7Riii and A7iii. However, some of the features of the M-50 offer a glimmer of hope long those lines.

However, despite what the Nikon fanboys are touting, Canon is not the company that Nikon needs to fight for superiority in the field of full-frame mirrorless cameras; that company is Sony. What it looks like from the specs is that the much touted Z-cameras come in a not so close second to the Sony A7-Riii and A7iii. And... the old saying is that "Close only counts in horseshoes and hand granades:D"

There are so many folks out there, on the Internet, trying to justify the lack of a second memory card slot and eye detect auto focus and, excusing other problems noted on the Z-cameras, that they sound like Donald Trump supporters trying to justify his ludicrous remarks and actions.

Let's be honest ladies and gentlemen: Do you absolutely NEED eye detect AF - of course not! Do you absolutely Need a back up memory card - of course not (that is until your primary card is corrupted). On one site, a Nikon fanboy writes that photographers have been working for decades with a single card slot and without eye AF and have seemed to do O.K.

Well, I worked for decades using a 4 x 5 inch press camera with cut film and did just fine with that equipment. However, I certainly wound not want to show up at a wedding in 2018 carrying a Speed Graphic.

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FWIW, I’m not a “Nikon fanboy”... and I agree that Sony is the competitor. As you see from my user name , I’m a “fanboy” of another. I tried Sony pursuant to buying a Fuji. What I appreciate is the ease with which I can made photographs while not having to search through menus to find the most basic of controls. Sony’s are fine for some—just not me.

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Originally Posted by dje

Over at DPReview, there is a relatively new forum for Nikon Z cameras. Already there are over 400 threads totaling over 6000 posts on this forum!! I find it quite amazing how carried away a lot of the posters are.:eek: The one card issue features prominently! Dave

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That's why I'm happy I found this Forum.

It looks like this will be Post #28 in this thread - a remarkably low number vs. other photography Forums. The amount of drivel this Z announcement has generated has been absolute nauseating. I commend everyone here on their restraint and plain old common sense!

Shooting portraits in the vertical position, many of us take advantage of the vertical shutter release button on a battery grip. From what I have heard (Jared Polin for what that is worth) the Canon Z camera users won't be able to do that because the battery grip doesn't have a button. I WONDER IF THAT IS TRUE - in fact, I WONDER IF THAT COULD BE TRUE:(

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Originally Posted by rpcrowe

Shooting portraits in the vertical position, many of us take advantage of the vertical shutter release button on a battery grip. From what I have heard (Jared Polin for what that is worth) the Canon Z camera users won't be able to do that because the battery grip doesn't have a button. I WONDER IF THAT IS TRUE - in fact, I WONDER IF THAT COULD BE TRUE:(

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I refuse to wonder.... I shall wait and see. :rolleyes:

The cynic in me has always felt that a mirrorless camera is something that any DSLR camera maker will want to produce. A mirrorless camera has far fewer parts than a DSLR and will be less expensive to manufacture. Selling a mirrorless camera at a premium price versus a DSLR is going to improve the profit margins for Nikon and others.

Too late in the game for me to switch to mirrorless unless Nikon comes out with a body with F mount. I've got too many F mount lenses. Maybe when I give up shooting wildlife...

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Originally Posted by NorthernFocus

Too late in the game for me to switch to mirrorless unless Nikon comes out with a body with F mount. I've got too many F mount lenses. Maybe when I give up shooting wildlife...

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They have an adapter and the camera has in-body image stabilization that will work in conjunction with your lenses.

Irrelevant anyway - they are made out of unobtanium.

Looks like Canon will announce Sept. 5th - some more more good stuff. Thanks to Sony, we are about to have a real FF mirror less war!

I'm sure both companies felt they had to move the "official" announcements up a lot earlier then they would have liked.

People are talking about the prices of Nikon D810 and, possibly, the Canon 5D range, collapsing through the floor.

Now, if Canon would just drop the prices of EF lenses (such as the Tilt and Shift's) that would be be wonderful. Don't think it will happen though.

When Nikon sneezes the rest of the camera manufacturers catch a cold. I'm curious as to why they took so long to come out with a full frame mirrorless camera and another set of lenses. Maybe they were waiting to see how Sony fared with theirs. I remember when Kawasaki came out with the 500cc model that was the fastest production motorcycle at the time. 6 months later they came out with a 750cc bike that did the quarter mile in 1/2 second faster. All of a sudden the 500cc bike was obsolete. Is this what Nikos is doing to preserve their market share> Will they now proclaim the DSLR obsolete?

And when will Fujifilm come out with a full frame?

Just my thoughts.

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Originally Posted by LePetomane

I'm curious as to why they took so long to come out with a full frame mirrorless camera and another set of lenses.

And when will Fujifilm come out with a full frame?

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Nikon has a huge professional base with their ancient F-mount lenses, so they have to protect and not alienate that user base, much like Canon, so they have to tread carefully.

Mirrorless cameras have always had two great weaknesses; electronic viewfinder performance and poor battery life when compared to a DSLR. The viewfinders have gotten better, but still do not compare to optical viewfinders. The battery life issues will always be there. The camera sensor is always on in a mirrorless camera and is very power hungry. In a DSLR, it is turned on during the exposure and turned off again unless one is using LiveView mode.

FujiFilm has publicly said they will never make a full frame camera, opting instead to go to a medium format camera that is about the same size as a FF DSLR

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Originally Posted by pnodrog

They have an adapter and the camera has in-body image stabilization that will work in conjunction with your lenses.

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I'm philosophically opposed to investing in the best optics available then sticking something between those optics and the image sensor. Though an adapter doesn't introduce additional glass, just another mechanical/electrical connection. But for much of the wildlife shooting that I do it's a moot point until mirrorless AF improves. Maybe Nikon will be the ones to do it. However no long lenses in their announced future plans suggest that sports/wildlife shooters are not the target audience. Wonder if AF performance has something to do with that?

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Originally Posted by Manfred M

FujiFilm has publicly said they will never make a full frame camera, opting instead to go to a medium format camera that is about the same size as a FF DSLR

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My guess is that they are so invested in their medical device division that their camera division is a small portion of their bottom line.

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Originally Posted by LePetomane

My guess is that they are so invested in their medical device division that their camera division is a small portion of their bottom line.

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Regardless of why it seems pretty clear that they are targeting those parts of the market where they aren't going head to head with Canon, Nikon, and Sony.