Means to search for files

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Originally Posted by CarolC

I am using Windows 7. I went to windows explorer - computer - library - top right hand side box labelled 'search Samsung (f) and put in the word.

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I don't remember how Windows 7 works, so the best I can do is explain how Windows 10 works:

Open Explorer. Use the browser to select the drive, directory or folder you want to search. That item and all lower parts of the hierarchy will be searched. Type the keyword in the search text field located in the upper right corner of the window. If you want to find all images that have multiple keywords, type them separated by a space. There may be other ways to complete the search, such as to find all images that are of wine but display no bottle, but I haven't taken the time to figure that out.

Keywords are definitely embedded in jpg files, and I believe psd files, not just in the xmp files. I don't know about Windows, but Finder on the Mac finds files by keyword whether there is an associated xmp file or not.

I'm not certain, but I don't think Windows 7 search will do this, at least not in plain vanilla form.

Mike - I don't know of any software that embeds keywords in the raw file, although to be quite frank, I suppose it could be done. Keywords are embedded during the raw conversion process in the sidecar .xmp files NOT the raw files themselves or in the catalogue in the case of Lightroom or Capture One. The raw file is never changed after it is written from the camera. This data is carried forward into the jpeg, tiff and psd data. So unless the camera adds this, I'm not sure what Windows 10 explorer is displaying.

The best it could do is to get the keywords in the associated metadata. Again, this can work (after all this is how Bridge does it), but if the user is running Lightroom or Capture One this won't work as the keyword data will be associated with the catalogue database(s).

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Originally Posted by GrumpyDiver

I don't know of any software that embeds keywords in the raw file

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My cataloging software can do it going back at least 8 years and five versions. I choose not to do it but it can easily be done.

In that case your cataloging software breaks one of the basic tenets of what raw data is all about - the raw file should never be changed, as this is your digital negative. Are you sure that it does this rather than writing things to the sidecar file or an internal database?

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Originally Posted by GrumpyDiver

In that case your cataloging software breaks one of the basic tenets of what raw data is all about - the raw file should never be changed, as this is your digital negative.

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I disagree and so does the best practice advocated by ASMP. Referring to the raw file's metadata and embedded JPEG preview...

"There are plenty of reasons one might want to alter these.

"You might want to alter the embedded JPEG preview, for instance, to reflect the adjustments made by the user when editing the file. This would allow the end-result image to travel along with the file. And if you create descriptive metadata such as a keyword, or administrative metadata such as a copyright notice, then it may be highly desirable to attach these terms to the file as well."

If you do that, you can still maintain a pure digital negative by always working only on a copy of the original raw file.

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Are you sure that it does this rather than writing things to the sidecar file or an internal database?

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The user has the choice of writing information to the following: database only, database and sidecar file, or database and raw file.

I'm quite certain and even published an eBook about how to use the software. That was three versions ago but the options remain the same today.

The new version of Bridge recently released by Adobe is much quicker than prvious versions.

However lightroom is much better in dealing with gps data, key words, free text &ect.
THe benefit of lightroom is that it is so eay to rename files , add other info abd then search for individual files.

Remember one can have multiple catalogues, so one can have a discrete catalogue to use with a disk.;

Thank you Mike. I was waiting for any niggles to be sorted out in Windows 10 - have you found this ok? I would also add that my keyworded library is in JPeg form (nor the original Nef) but I obviously have the original Nefs.

Well Mike,
I think you have solved my problem and I say thank you very much. I have put the library on the hard drive into the My Pictures and they are popping up as we speak.

With very kind regards. I presume I can safely copy them into whatever file I want to now with any adverse affect!!

Carol

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Originally Posted by GrumpyDiver

Mike - I don't know of any software that embeds keywords in the raw file, although to be quite frank, I suppose it could be done. Keywords are embedded during the raw conversion process in the sidecar .xmp files NOT the raw files themselves or in the catalogue in the case of Lightroom or Capture One. The raw file is never changed after it is written from the camera. This data is carried forward into the jpeg, tiff and psd data. So unless the camera adds this, I'm not sure what Windows 10 explorer is displaying.

The best it could do is to get the keywords in the associated metadata. Again, this can work (after all this is how Bridge does it), but if the user is running Lightroom or Capture One this won't work as the keyword data will be associated with the catalogue database(s).

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The old Nikon CaptureNx stores the metadata and IPTC in the RAW-file. If you extract the embedded jpg from the RAW, you don't have the metadata.
IView works like that. It uses the embedded JPG and the metadata and IPTC from the RAW. But you can't change them.
Windows is using the Nikon codec I think. If IView can read that data, then Windows can too.

George

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Originally Posted by CarolC

Thank you Mike. I was waiting for any niggles to be sorted out in Windows 10 - have you found this ok? I would also add that my keyworded library is in JPeg form (nor the original Nef) but I obviously have the original Nefs.

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You're talking about NEF. Did you try ViewNx?

George

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Originally Posted by george013

The old Nikon CaptureNx stores the metadata and IPTC in the RAW-file.

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Not that everyone considers Nikon an expert on best practices, but it is at least interesting that until relatively recently all Nikon software behaved that way and only that way. More recent Nikon software provides the option of storing everything in the raw file or its sidecar file.

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If you extract the embedded jpg from the RAW, you don't have the metadata.

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That depends on the software you use to extract it. As an example, the cataloging software that I use will extract the embedded JPEG, grab all of the metadata stored elsewhere in the raw file or in the corresponding sidecar file and save a new JPEG with all of the metadata stored in it.

Glad to know Windows 10 is working well for you, Carol! I'm especially glad to know you're finding images by searching for keywords. I'm not an aficionado of operating systems, but Windows 10 seems to be the fastest and most intuitive Windows operating system I have ever used.

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Originally Posted by CarolC

I have put the library on the hard drive into the My Pictures and they are popping up as we speak.

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Now that I think of that, I realize that all of my photos are stored in the My Pictures directory. However, I believe Windows 10 will find your photos by searching for their keywords regardless of where they are stored. As an example, I just now successfully conducted a search using a keyword of images stored in Dropbox.

George - I've never said that the raw file does not contain metadata; of course it does as this is what the camera has written to the the data file on the memory card. What I have said (and will continue to say) is that it is not good practice to write any data to the raw file via software on the computer, as this opens the file up to a corruption risk and that in my opinion is no way to treat a master record. Just to be clear, the way computers work is that when a file is edited, the old file is erased (which means it is marked as being erased as opposed to physically being removed from the storage drive) and a new file with the same name is written to the storage device.


Mike - Whether Nikon does this with their software, I can't say. I haven't used their software in 4 or 5 years now. The problem with raw files is that none of the camera manufacturers publish the file structure of their raw files and these have to be reverse engineered by any third party. So if Nikon decides to write everything back to a raw file, at least I would have no concerns that they understand the file format. Other parties, can't because reverse engineering is never perfect and they could miss something that causes issues later on.

Best practice is what some of the big name software vendors (Adobe and Phase One) do by either writing the extracted metadata (and any changes from either a parametric editor or keyword editor) to either an internal database or a sidecar file. That way you know that your data is correct, so long as the transfer from the memory card was clean.

Hi Mike,

I was wondering if you have found any niggles with Windows 10? I haven't yet put it on but am quite keen to in the future, especially if it is quicker.

Hi George,
Many thanks for this reply. I don't know about ViewNx at all. Is it worth using?

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Originally Posted by CarolC

Hi George,
Many thanks for this reply. I don't know about ViewNx at all. Is it worth using?

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Carol this is a Nikon specific product and are not particularly well regarded parametric editor / raw converter. This is the software that ships with Nikon cameras. They are not cataloging tools so if you are using Photoshop and Bridge, you would likely find them a step backwards.

Carol,

I've had no issues regarding Windows 10. I gather that it works fine for most people but there are always the exceptions. See this thread for explanations by people who have experienced both the good and the bad.

I apparently misunderstood your previous post because I thought you had installed Windows 10. Were you able to conduct searches of keywords in your images using Windows 7?

As for Nikon's photo-editing software, there are View NX-i, View NX-2 and Capture NX-D. See this page for Nikon's explanation of them. (I think View NX-2 is no longer supported, but I could be wrong.)

I agree with Manfred about those programs' reputations as not being well regarded due to severe limitations, such as the inability to selectively edit parts of the image. They are fine when making basic global adjustments. If you're happy with your current photo-editing software, I see no reason for you to take the time to explore the Nikon products.

View NX-i certainly does have cataloging capabilities such as reviewing and editing metadata but I've never taken the time to explore those capabilities because I use quite advanced cataloging software. Cataloging is certainly not Nikon's strength, so if you're happy with Bridge you're probably better off just sticking with it. Indeed, if you're not happy with Bridge, you would probably be better off by looking at programs other than Nikon programs.