B & W Filters - Question

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Originally Posted by William W

. . . it is very difficult for Post Production Software to mimic the effects of Neutral Density Filters.
WW

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When it comes to using software to replace the need for a graduated neutral density filter, check out this announcement made a few days ago.

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Originally Posted by doomed forever

The only filter you can't really mimic originally by software, is the Polarizer Filter

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That depends on what the polarizer is being used to do. If it's being used only to affect the blue part of a sky, that can be done relatively easily using software. If it's being used for anything else, it's very difficult to use software to produce the same results.

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Originally Posted by Mike Buckley

When it comes to using software to replace the need for a graduated neutral density filter, check out this announcement made a few days ago.

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Interesting Mike. As always, the devil is in the details and the actual implementation of this feature is what I would be most interested in.

If it is jpeg only, then its utility might be less useful to some photographers. On the other hand, if it actually reduces the exposure and prevents parts of the image from blowing out, then it will be a useful feature; if all it does is darken parts of the image with values of less than 255, then it will be a less useful.

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Originally Posted by Mike Buckley

That depends on what the polarizer is being used to do. If it's being used only to affect the blue part of a sky, that can be done relatively easily using software. If it's being used for anything else, it's very difficult to use software to produce the same results.

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Even if you are using it to darken the sky, the polarizer will also remove reflections from leaves and other non-metallic reflective surfaces in the image, so I would argue that the software emulation you suggest is only going to be a partial one.

On the other hand, software emulation doesn't create banding when you use it with wide angle lenses, so this approach will be better in those uses.

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Originally Posted by GrumpyDiver

Even if you are using it to darken the sky, the polarizer will also remove reflections from leaves and other non-metallic reflective surfaces in the image, so I would argue that the software emulation you suggest is only going to be a partial one.

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You apparently haven't taken photos only of the sky. :D

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Originally Posted by Sam W

. . . My question regarding the blue filter was based on Silver Efex having a blue filter in addition to the four you mentioned.

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OK. Understood. Thanks for explaining.
That prompted me to make these:

http://gallery.photo.net/photo/18144846-lg.jpg

WW

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Originally Posted by doomed forever

. . . The only filter you can't really mimic originally by software, is the Polarizer Filter...

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mike Buckley

That depends on what the polarizer is being used to do. If it's being used only to affect the blue part of a sky, that can be done relatively easily using software. If it's being used for anything else, it's very difficult to use software to produce the same results.

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Originally Posted by GrumpyDiver

. . .On the other hand, software emulation doesn't create banding when you use it with wide angle lenses, so this approach will be better in those uses.

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If using a Wide Angle and in some circumstances even a Normal to Short Telephoto Lens and there is a lot of sky across the whole frame: I often find it preferable to use Post Production, rather than a CPL Filter.

WW

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Originally Posted by GrumpyDiver

As always, the devil is in the details and the actual implementation of this feature is what I would be most interested in.

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The software apparently is the first of its kind. However good, bad or limited it is now, I would expect the capability to get much better in the future as not just Sony but also other companies develop better software.

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If it is jpeg only

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It works on Sony's raw files.

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Originally Posted by William W

. . . it is very difficult for Post Production Software to mimic the effects of Neutral Density Filters.

WW

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I know, but have you ever checked out Nik Color Efex Pro Plugin`? It does the Job...also, i prefer a real ND filter.

Marc

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. . . it is very difficult for Post Production Software to mimic the effects of Neutral Density Filters.

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Originally Posted by doomed forever

I know, but have you ever checked out Nik Color Efex Pro Plugin`? It does the Job

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Dunno how Nik Color Efex Pro Plugin allows a change of Shutter Speed to smooth water; or allows a change of Shutter Speed to make moving objects invisible; or allow a change of Aperture to allow Flash at X-Sync; or allow a change of Aperture to facilitate very shallow DoF.

WW

The question asked related specifically to use of B & W Filters as compared with PP. The ND, GND and polarizing filters you have ended up discussing are common to both B & W and colour photography so strictly speaking are beyond the initial scope of this thread......:)

Yeah but - these are the attractions, benefits and idiosyncratic ways of CiC: the meanderings . . .

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Originally Posted by William W

Yeah but - these are the attractions, benefits and idiosyncratic ways of CiC: the meanderings . . .

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It is just nice bathing in self righteousness as I am not the guilty party on this occasion...:eek:

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Originally Posted by William W

OK. Understood. Thanks for explaining.
That prompted me to make these:

http://gallery.photo.net/photo/18144846-lg.jpg

WW

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Thanks very much for the update William. It is interesting how the deep blue affects the green in the color chart but not so much on the green apple verses the blue filter (with the blue having a lessor effect). - Sam

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Originally Posted by pnodrog

It is just nice bathing in self righteousness as I am not the guilty party on this occasion...:eek:

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That conveniently works both ways. It is just nice bathing in self righteousness as I am one of the guilty parties on this occasion...:eek: Ha! :D

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Originally Posted by Sam W

It is interesting how the deep blue affects the green in the color chart but not so much on the green apple verses the blue filter (with the blue having a lessor effect).

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The effect of a particular color filter is reasonably easy to predict so long as you have the positions of colors on a color wheel embedded in your brain (I don't) or have one handy (they're all over the Internet and in my primary post-processing software). The color of the filter renders that color bright in the monochrome version. The color that is opposite it on the color wheel is rendered dark. The closer the other colors are to the color of the filter on the wheel, the brighter those colors are rendered in the monochrome version; the farther away the other colors are from the color of the filter on the wheel, the darker they are rendered.

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Originally Posted by William W

Dunno how Nik Color Efex Pro Plugin allows a change of Shutter Speed to smooth water; or allows a change of Shutter Speed to make moving objects invisible; or allow a change of Aperture to allow Flash at X-Sync; or allow a change of Aperture to facilitate very shallow DoF.

WW

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I said it's a simple ND Software Filter via a Plugin feature - and better than nothing, when you've forgotten your ND Filter for real onto the Lens. You seem to always need to profile yourself.


Marc

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Originally Posted by doomed forever

I said it's a simple ND Software Filter via a Plugin feature - and better than nothing, when you've forgotten your ND Filter for real onto the Lens. You seem to always need to profile yourself.


Marc

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Marc - I see GND emulation in Nik, but not ND. As Bill has stated, much of what a ND does if affecting a shot cannot be emulated in software after the picture has been taken..

The GND is not as clear cut, as a gradient can do this (Nik or otherwise) so long as there are no blown out highlights in the affected part of the image. On the other hand, the main reason I shoot with a GND is to reduce / eliminate that risk, In those cases software emulation of a GND is not useful.

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Originally Posted by Mike Buckley

That conveniently works both ways. It is just nice bathing in self righteousness as I am one of the guilty parties on this occasion...:eek: Ha! :D

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This is just the sort of misguided comment that should be discouraged. Self righteous feelings should be reserved for the innocent.

Santa will probably no longer bring you the f1.2 12-400mm lens he had for you... Have a great Christmas.

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Originally Posted by pnodrog

Self righteous feelings should be reserved for the innocent.

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That being the case, I would never have the opportunity to be self-righteous and I refuse to be denied that opportunity. So there! :D