First with the 5DS + 11-24 f4

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Originally Posted by Donald

It seems (and I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong), that Nikon's nef files DO carry in-camera sharpening in them, just as you have written. However, Canon's cr2 files DO NOT. In the Canon, in-camera sharpening only applies to the JPEG (including that which appears on the back screen), but is not attached into the raw file.

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Sorry. Donald, but I believe you are wrong.

I had some Canon and Nikon raw files and imported both into Camera Raw and default sharpening settings stayed the same; so sharpening data does not appear to come across from either camera. Ditto the raw files from my Panasonic camera.

I also suspect that the reason you don't need to sharpen is that the downsampling algorithms maintain some level of edge sharpness as the size of the image is reduced, this effect is that your image will look sharper. I found the same thing shooting with the D800 and at times I end up unsharpening things slightly after downsizing to counter this.

By the way; nice shot...

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Originally Posted by GrumpyDiver

Sorry. Donald, but I believe you are wrong.

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Please don't apologise. It's not the first time!!

So, are you saying that what I wrote about Canon (However, Canon's cr2 files DO NOT. In the Canon, in-camera sharpening only applies to the JPEG (including that which appears on the back screen), but is not attached into the raw file.) is correct,and that what I wrote about Nikon ( Nikon's nef files DO carry in-camera sharpening in them) is incorrect?

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Originally Posted by Donald

Please don't apologise. It's not the first time!!

So, are you saying that what I wrote about Canon (However, Canon's cr2 files DO NOT. In the Canon, in-camera sharpening only applies to the JPEG (including that which appears on the back screen), but is not attached into the raw file.) is correct,and that what I wrote about Nikon ( Nikon's nef files DO carry in-camera sharpening in them) is incorrect?

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Yes, so far as I can tell the only data that is carried over in both Canon and Nikon raw data is the "as shot" white balance data. No sharpening, contrast, etc. data comes along.

With jpegs (any camera); sharpening, saturation, contrast, etc. are done in camera and end up in the jpeg file.

With the Panasonic, lens profile correction data is also passed on with the raw data.

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Originally Posted by GrumpyDiver

I had some Canon and Nikon raw files and imported both into Camera Raw and default sharpening settings stayed the same; so sharpening data does not appear to come across from either camera.

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I suspect that is because ACR doesn't read the proprietary data or at least the proprietary format that contains the data. That doesn't mean the data isn't there to be read by the folks that have the keys to the castle.

I can absolutely confirm that Nikon's software reads all of the data such as sharpening, hue, saturation, contrast, etc. that are included in the Nikon Picture Control settings configured in the camera. It also reads other settings, all of which are displayed in a panel named "Camera Settings." I can change the values after converting the raw file using my Nikon software and I can then revert to the settings embedded in the file by the camera at any time during my post-processing workflow.

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Originally Posted by Mike Buckley

I suspect that is because ACR doesn't read the proprietary data or at least the proprietary format that contains the data. That doesn't mean the data isn't there to be read by the folks that have the keys to the castle.

I can absolutely confirm that Nikon's software reads all of the data such as sharpening, hue, saturation, contrast, etc. that are included in the Nikon Picture Control settings configured in the camera. It also reads other settings, all of which are displayed in a panel named "Camera Settings." I can change the values after converting the raw file using my Nikon software and I can then revert to the settings embedded in the file by the camera at any time during my post-processing workflow.

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All the data is certainly available if it is written into the metadata. The fact that Nikon's software happens to read it does not surprise me (I don't use it anymore). So far as I remember it also contains the data on the focus points used, the GPS coordinates (if a GPS in installed or used by the camera), etc.

I suspect that Adobe is probably only reading data that is common across all platforms for the import operations. So far as I can tell, same thing goes for the DxO Optics Pro and Phase One Capture One raw converters.

Remarkable detail. It's most apparent to me in the road.

One thing I noticed is what appears to be a halo around the leaves at the tops of the trees. In the image converted via Silver Efex, it's impossible to know what this is. Is present before reading the image into Silver Efex? And if it is, does it appear to be chromatic aberration? It's on a high-contrast border, which is where one would see it. Or is it an artifact of the processing in Silver Efex?

Donald may i ask a favor? Please continue to post on your learning curve with your new set-up. All i can say about your shot is that it makes me want to go down the road and around the bend. Beautiful.

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Originally Posted by DanK

One thing I noticed is what appears to be a halo around the leaves at the tops of the trees. In the image converted via Silver Efex, it's impossible to know what this is. Is present before reading the image into Silver Efex? And if it is, does it appear to be chromatic aberration? It's on a high-contrast border, which is where one would see it. Or is it an artifact of the processing in Silver Efex?

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Dan

That's an artifact of me being over aggressive with the 'Amplify Blacks' slider on the sky in Silver Efex Pro. I've noticed it before and keep trying to remind myself to always check this out. But then I forget!!

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Originally Posted by Mike Buckley

I can absolutely confirm that Nikon's software reads all of the data such as sharpening, hue, saturation, contrast, etc. that are included in the Nikon Picture Control settings configured in the camera.

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Ah - I wonder if Canon's DPP (Digital Photo Professional) software therefore does the same thing. Must check that out. It certainly reads other data such as Picture Style and Picture Ratio and presents that in the raw file.

First of all I would like to thank you Donald, Manfred and Mike for the discussion about Nikon and Canon to carry the in camera sharpening data to a raw file. I'm following it with eyes wide open:)

About the sharpening thing, I just would like to say as an inexperienced member that ' my images look sharpened and crisp when I process them in SEP2 especially when I'm aggresive about the PP work. The structure and contrast sliders might create some crisp images with halos. My main software for B&W images is SEP2 and I sometimes add a little output sharpening to them with unsharp mask of PS or sometimes I don't add at all. It depends on how the image looks after my processing in SEP2.

Enjoy your new combo Donald. I hope we will see more of your nice images :)

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Originally Posted by Donald

Ah - I wonder if Canon's DPP (Digital Photo Professional) software therefore does the same thing. Must check that out. It certainly reads other data such as Picture Style and Picture Ratio and presents that in the raw file.

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Your last sentence surely answers the question in your first sentence. As an example, I believe the Picture Style is Canon's answer to Nikon's Picture Control, which includes sharpening unless you have customized it to eliminate the sharpening. (I customized the Picture Control I use to increase the sharpening for the reason explained in an earlier post.) All of the Nikon Picture Control parameters plus other settings are read by Nikon software and I would be shocked to learn that Canon settings aren't read by Canon software.

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Originally Posted by Donald

Dan

That's an artifact of me being over aggressive with the 'Amplify Blacks' slider on the sky in Silver Efex Pro. I've noticed it before and keep trying to remind myself to always check this out. But then I forget!!

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Donald,

Thanks. I am just learning my way around Silver Efex, so this is very helpful.

Dan

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Originally Posted by DanK

Donald,

Thanks. I am just learning my way around Silver Efex, so this is very helpful.

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I never use Amplify Whites or Amplify Whites in the Global Adjustments section. I always use them for specific areas of the image and do this by use of Control Points. It seems that if you do this and are over-aggressive with the Amplify Blacks, then the edge between the area that you're wanting adjust and the area you don't want to adjust can throw up this halo effect. It's like over-sharpening, but not so pronounced or so well-defined.

A beautiful image that makes my eyes smile.

A very impressive image, with the 5D2 I have always used DXO to sharpen, my 7D2 doesn't need anywhere near the same. I've used same lenses on both cameras to compare. I've sat on my hands when it's come to the new large 5D cameras, your image is giving me food for thought:)

Thanks for commenting Kim and Mark.

The trees in the image have been an important part of my photographic life. Proves the point - One you find a good location, work it to death!! Here they are in other images:-

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7314/...dbca4946_z.jpg

and

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7788/...bda7fe5d_z.jpg