A similar but warmer and brighter scene

Binnur - my B&W workflow is a bit different than the ones mentioned here, and that is because I usually make the monochrome versus colour decision at the time I press the shutter release, i.e. I take the picture with the intent of converting later on. I very rarely change my mind after I open the image in post, as I look at monochrome as a compositional tool, rather than an end in itself.

I use Photoshops Camera Raw filter to do my conversions on data file that I open as a SmartObject. The main reason I do this is because I have 8 different sliders to work with, rather than the 6 in Photoshop. I use this work flow so that I can go back and tweak things as I work the image; sometimes I change my mind as the work progresses and I see the impact of other edits on the image.

To me a monochrome image is all about two things; tonality and contrast. I really don't care what the file looks like in colour. I get the tones working for me first and only consider how they look in monochrome. Tweaking the sky and either bringing out the clouds, or subduing them (blue and aqua sliders), changing the impact of leaves (mostly the yellow slider), etc. Once that is looking good, I move on to the contrast that I generally set manually with a curves adjustment layer.

Once I get all that done, I do the actual edits on the monochrome image.

I do own the whole Nik suite, but generally either do not use Silver Efex or if I do, it is on a monochrome image. I sometimes use it for a "quick & dirty" B&W conversion, but mostly not. I find I have much better control of the final image if I stick with Photoshop.

Hi Manfred :) Thanks for explaining your work flow. I already know from your comments in the past that you don't care about how the color image looks while making B&W conversions. Although you don't use SEP2 , you have the same logic, you care about how the B&W image looks not the color image.

I'm too gradually getting into thinking the scene in B&W before shooting and a friend of mine, Rob Castro who is one of the members of CinC but doesn't upload photos anymore, adviced me to shoot jpg images in monochrome mode in addition to shooting raw images so that I can see on my LCD screen that if the scene is close to the one in my mind for a B&W conversion.

I also would like to thank Rob a lot for his tips and help about photography although he is not here anymore. I like his art and he is a nice friend :)

PS. There are color sliders in SEP2 too but I don't usually use them .

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Originally Posted by GrumpyDiver

Binnur - my B&W workflow is a bit different than the ones mentioned here, and that is because I usually make the monochrome versus colour decision at the time I press the shutter release, i.e. I take the picture with the intent of converting later on. I very rarely change my mind after I open the image in post, as I look at monochrome as a compositional tool, rather than an end in itself.

I use Photoshops Camera Raw filter to do my conversions on data file that I open as a SmartObject. The main reason I do this is because I have 8 different sliders to work with, rather than the 6 in Photoshop. I use this work flow so that I can go back and tweak things as I work the image; sometimes I change my mind as the work progresses and I see the impact of other edits on the image.

To me a monochrome image is all about two things; tonality and contrast. I really don't care what the file looks like in colour. I get the tones working for me first and only consider how they look in monochrome. Tweaking the sky and either bringing out the clouds, or subduing them (blue and aqua sliders), changing the impact of leaves (mostly the yellow slider), etc. Once that is looking good, I move on to the contrast that I generally set manually with a curves adjustment layer.

Once I get all that done, I do the actual edits on the monochrome image.

I do own the whole Nik suite, but generally either do not use Silver Efex or if I do, it is on a monochrome image. I sometimes use it for a "quick & dirty" B&W conversion, but mostly not. I find I have much better control of the final image if I stick with Photoshop.

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Originally Posted by bnnrcn

shoot jpg images in monochrome mode

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When I first heard about that concept, I thought it was a really great idea but never got around to trying it. Now that I have so much experience appreciating that the photo can look so different depending on what color filter is used to convert to monochrome, I've never tried it for fear that the monochrome version made by the camera will be misleading.

Binnur I have nothing to add to the B/W technical stuff but just wanted to say I like the photo!

It is always possible to use the in camera B&W filters (like blue,red,orange etc) and get different B&W alternatives of the same scene Mike. I haven't tried it yet but it sounds helpful to me. At least it can give an idea and help my thinking in B&W. Because you are much more experienced in photography, I'm sure you don't need such a thing :)

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Originally Posted by Mike Buckley

When I first heard about that concept, I thought it was a really great idea but never got around to trying it. Now that I have so much experience appreciating that the photo can look so different depending on what color filter is used to convert to monochrome, I've never tried it for fear that the monochrome version made by the camera will be misleading.

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Thank you very much Barbara, I'm glad that you liked the image :)

BTW whenever a B&W discussion starts in CinC , it usually carries on because everybody has their own way. Anyway , all ways go to Rome ;)

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Originally Posted by Barbara Ponder

Binnur I have nothing to add to the B/W technical stuff but just wanted to say I like the photo!

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BTW after looking at the image the next day, I find the sky too warm for such a landscape shot. IMO such a warm sky might have suited a seascape image better. So I cooled the sky a bit and here it is. IMO the scene looks better now, what do you think ?

PS. Something about the image was bothering me yesterday too, I think it was the very strong sky.Now I feel more comfy :rolleyes:


http://i61.tinypic.com/jzvdea.jpg

My workflow is a little arse about from yours, Binnur...I use Camera Raw first, then open the image in Photoshop and then see what needs to be removed, cloned, etc., then I reached for Nik's filters so when I come back to Photoshop I do not need to do the little things and just delete the filter layer should it seems not to my liking. Colour Efex can be helpful on translating moods too...

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Hi John. I'm back again as I can't sleep anyway:o My reason for my preference of B&W is totaly different from what you think. I actually find color editing a bit boring and I don't want to spend a long time on it. Because a sunset image is a sunset image and you just have to edit it according to what a sunset image should be similar to. But in a B&W conversion you can even create a night photo from an image taken in the middle of the day or a stormy effect out of an afternoon shot with nice clouds in the sky, because you are dealing with the tones of grey instead of colors. So I don't feel limited and I can edit the image according to what my heart tells me when I sit in front of the image.That's why I can spend hours for B&W conversions without getting bored

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though my workflow is not as comprehensive as what John's google-suggested link. I think that is too much. Once you get into Viveza and uses structure, there isn't much you can do to use D-fine then get to CEP2 as you will be loading too much filters that might look attrocious really.

Here is 52 filters in 52 weeks...it is never boring...
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...OMalMD4-uET-5c

Thanks for the links Isabel. I sometimes use filters in CEP4 and Analof Efex, but I do my main B&W conversion in SEP2 by using the sliders and without using the filter effects.Because I find the filter effects or given recipes a bit restricting my PP work.

As already mentioned in above posts , how to use a software and which software to are is completely personal preference;)

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Originally Posted by IzzieK

My workflow is a little arse about from yours, Binnur...I use Camera Raw first, then open the image in Photoshop and then see what needs to be removed, cloned, etc., then I reached for Nik's filters so when I come back to Photoshop I do not need to do the little things and just delete the filter layer should it seems not to my liking. Colour Efex can be helpful on translating moods too...



though my workflow is not as comprehensive as what John's google-suggested link. I think that is too much. Once you get into Viveza and uses structure, there isn't much you can do to use D-fine then get to CEP2 as you will be loading too much filters that might look attrocious really.

Here is 52 filters in 52 weeks...it is never boring...
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...OMalMD4-uET-5c

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Originally Posted by bnnrcn

Hi John. I'm back again as I can't sleep anyway:o My reason for my preference of B&W is totaly different from what you think. I actually find color editing a bit boring and I don't want to spend a long time on it. Because a sunset image is a sunset image and you just have to edit it according to what a sunset image should be similar to. But in a B&W conversion you can even create a night photo from an image taken in the middle of the day or a stormy effect out of an afternoon shot with nice clouds in the sky, because you are dealing with the tones of grey instead of colors. So I don't feel limited and I can edit the image according to what my heart tells me when I sit in front of the image.That's why I can spend hours for B&W conversions without getting bored :)

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Hi Binnur,

You've provided the answer that settles my curiosity, I still stand by my original comment that you should allow someone else to edit your images for color, I think you have a good eye for colorful compositions.

Oh, thank you John:) I will see what happens in the future. I will have to watch as many color landscapes as the B&W ones on the internet or in the books for my improvement, if I want to carry on both sides .

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Originally Posted by Shadowman

Hi Binnur,

You've provided the answer that settles my curiosity, I still stand by my original comment that you should allow someone else to edit your images for color, I think you have a good eye for colorful compositions.

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Binnur, unusually when it comes to your work, I find that something troubles me with this. It isn't the sky. There is a colour cast that make the FG look unnatural and the mid ground is a bit too blocked. Tried reducing the colour cast but strange thing happen in the sky when I do that e.g. a cyan rainbow appears. Can't put my finger on it. Sorry, (not my normal view of your images).

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Originally Posted by bnnrcn

I'm too gradually getting into thinking the scene in B&W before shooting and a friend of mine, Rob Castro who is one of the members of CinC but doesn't upload photos anymore, adviced me to shoot jpg images in monochrome mode in addition to shooting raw images so that I can see on my LCD screen that if the scene is close to the one in my mind for a B&W conversion.

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I know one commercial photographer who does exactly that; he shoots raw + (B&W) jpeg for that very reason. He started out as a B&W newspaper photographer, many years ago, so understands the subtleties of B&W work quite well.

I've tried that technique and find it does not work for me, as I add a PP step that is very much like adding coloured filters over the lens like I sometimes did in my B&W film days; yellow or red to enhance the sky, green to enhance skin tones, etc. This means my final result looks a lot different than the in-camera conversion.

I tend to have a vision of the scene in my "minds eye" when I press the shutter release; the texture of the sky, the colour of the grass and leaves, etc. and I will attempt to assemble that vision in PP. To some extent, as I often use a colour jpeg to create the B&W, I'd rather save the colour data in the jpeg. Of course I can (and do) forget to reset the camera function between shots, so I tend to not do this (and yes, I know I can always go back to the raw file).

Hi John, if you are talking about the pink color cast on the ground, I left it intentionally because the sky is pinkish too but the strength of it can be reduced;) Thanks for looking and commenting :)

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Originally Posted by John 2

Binnur, unusually when it comes to your work, I find that something troubles me with this. It isn't the sky. There is a colour cast that make the FG look unnatural and the mid ground is a bit too blocked. Tried reducing the colour cast but strange thing happen in the sky when I do that e.g. a cyan rainbow appears. Can't put my finger on it. Sorry, (not my normal view of your images).

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Thanks for the further comment Manfred :) I haven't tried the in camera filter effects for B&W in my camera yet, so I don't know how I will feel about the technique Rob suggested me. IMO I will find my own way in time.

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Originally Posted by GrumpyDiver

I know one commercial photographer who does exactly that; he shoots raw + (B&W) jpeg for that very reason. He started out as a B&W newspaper photographer, many years ago, so understands the subtleties of B&W work quite well.

I've tried that technique and find it does not work for me, as I add a PP step that is very much like adding coloured filters over the lens like I sometimes did in my B&W film days; yellow or red to enhance the sky, green to enhance skin tones, etc. This means my final result looks a lot different than the in-camera conversion.

I tend to have a vision of the scene in my "minds eye" when I press the shutter release; the texture of the sky, the colour of the grass and leaves, etc. and I will attempt to assemble that vision in PP. To some extent, as I often use a colour jpeg to create the B&W, I'd rather save the colour data in the jpeg. Of course I can (and do) forget to reset the camera function between shots, so I tend to not do this (and yes, I know I can always go back to the raw file).

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Originally Posted by IzzieK

Here is 52 filters in 52 weeks...it is never boring...
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...OMalMD4-uET-5c

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Thanks for the link, Izzie!

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Originally Posted by bnnrcn

It is always possible to use the in camera B&W filters (like blue,red,orange etc)

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I didn't even know cameras provide that option. I just now looked up my camera manual and indeed it provides the choice of yellow, orange, red and green filters. The first three will suit most landscape scenes and the last one will suit most portraits of caucasians. This could be a very handy tool to help visualize a scene in monochrome.

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Originally Posted by Mike Buckley

I didn't even know cameras provide that option. I just now looked up my camera manual and indeed it provides the choice of yellow, orange, red and green filters. The first three will suit most landscape scenes and the last one will suit most portraits of caucasians. This could be a very handy tool to help visualize a scene in monochrome.

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I would suspect that this feature impacts jpegs only.

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Originally Posted by GrumpyDiver

I would suspect that this feature impacts jpegs only.

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Didn't know I had these (filter options) on my Fuji but they are there and they don't seem to be dependent on a jpg setting. I like the thought about visualising an intended mono (cityscape/landscape??). I've been intending to try in camera mono for street shots but always forget. Time for some experiments I think.

Mike and John ,I'm glad that you have noticed those filters. IMO they are worth trying and they might be helpful :)

Manfred , it is already impossible to shoot raw images in B&W , so if someone wants to try those filters he/she has to shoot JPEGs besides RAW images anyway :rolleyes: