Candid Portrait of a little girl (C&C welcomed)

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Originally Posted by KimC

I wasn't comfortable, shooting someone else children

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When the adults aren't immediately available to gain consent before shooting, I make a point of finding them afterward and showing the best photo on the camera's LCD. If I'm at a park or other situation when I can't determine which child belongs to which adult, I keep shooting. I've never encountered a problem using that methodology.

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Originally Posted by GrumpyDiver

Kim - this is the type of shooting situation that I try to avoid as much as I can and the only time I will attempt to do so is for something like a family event, where there is no choice. The lighting is terrible and terrible lighting does not make for a great image. On a day like this, I would have had my Speedlight and spare batteries in my camera bag and would use both (fill flash). Being what looks like a social gathering, you can get away with it, but not in a street photography situation.

First of all, the good news is that the girls are in the shade, which means the light is diffuse and the lighting on them is not too bad. The main thing to watch for in this type of situation, especially if they are under a tree and that close to grass is that light that hits your subjects can give them a green cast that looks just terrible, but you have avoided that. That being said, the lighting is a bit uneven but I could live with this; although I might brighten the toddler's face up a touch

The bad news is that the scene is outside the dynamic range of your camera; the histogram shows that you have lost shadow detail on the left and have blown out highlights on the right. Unless there is enough data to recover the highlights, this image would have ended up in my reject pile. I also find that both versions (B&W and colour) are a touch too light for my taste and I would adjust to darken the shots a touch.

While the girls are cute, compositionally this image just does not work for me. The man on the left of the frame (father?) takes up and interferes with the frame. The background is just too bright and busy for my taste, and while it is a pleasant snapshot, it is not a compelling photograph.

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I know what you mean, Manfred, but I put technicalities aside when I saw that little girl's wonderful face.

Thanks Manfred. Yes, I have now learned just how difficult these situations are to photograph. I also have come not to like green. I remember that gray horse I did last year on the field had a green cast which made me crazy. One of the small things I have learned in the past year since my photography passion began.

Your tips and opinions on this image are appreciated.

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Originally Posted by GrumpyDiver

Kim - this is the type of shooting situation that I try to avoid as much as I can and the only time I will attempt to do so is for something like a family event, where there is no choice. The lighting is terrible and terrible lighting does not make for a great image. On a day like this, I would have had my Speedlight and spare batteries in my camera bag and would use both (fill flash). Being what looks like a social gathering, you can get away with it, but not in a street photography situation.

First of all, the good news is that the girls are in the shade, which means the light is diffuse and the lighting on them is not too bad. The main thing to watch for in this type of situation, especially if they are under a tree and that close to grass is that light that hits your subjects can give them a green cast that looks just terrible, but you have avoided that. That being said, the lighting is a bit uneven but I could live with this; although I might brighten the toddler's face up a touch

The bad news is that the scene is outside the dynamic range of your camera; the histogram shows that you have lost shadow detail on the left and have blown out highlights on the right. Unless there is enough data to recover the highlights, this image would have ended up in my reject pile. I also find that both versions (B&W and colour) are a touch too light for my taste and I would adjust to darken the shots a touch.

While the girls are cute, compositionally this image just does not work for me. The man on the left of the frame (father?) takes up and interferes with the frame. The background is just too bright and busy for my taste, and while it is a pleasant snapshot, it is not a compelling photograph.

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Agreed Mike - the past weekend's adventure, and the insight you have ALL provided has been a fabulous learning experience.

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Originally Posted by Mike Buckley

. Having said that, it's important to recognize that you were intentionally stretching beyond your comfort zone, which is always admirable. Add to that that you have so quickly learned from doing so and it's difficult to think anything but the most positive thoughts about your overall experience in making this photo. Sometimes it's more important to recognize the progress you made in the process rather than the success or failure of the final results. This seems to be one of those cases.

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Originally Posted by Acorn

I know what you mean, Manfred, but I put technicalities aside when I saw that little girl's wonderful face.

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Some things are meant to be enjoyed. Some things are meant to be photographed. Some things are meant for both, some not.

Her face got me too Barry. I tend to get attached to some of my images and it clouds my views of it. This was one ;-)

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Originally Posted by Acorn

I know what you mean, Manfred, but I put technicalities aside when I saw that little girl's wonderful face.

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Concerning #19, yes, you are correct as to the reason I took the photo.

Concerning #20, I have to tell you - your comment on #1 actually made me laugh - you hit the nail on the head... I took the 70-200 so I wouldn't have to get so close. Right decision for the first time, but going forward, I will use the 24-70. :-)

Thank you for all your other added comments in both posts...very helpful.

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Originally Posted by William W

Addendum:

Please note Post #19 was written without reading any of the thread other than the OP. My habit/protocol, as there was a direct question asked of me, I would not usually allow my response to be influenced by other commentary: a protocol of too much Judging Work, C&C and Marking Students' assignments, I guess.

Anyway, much of what I wrote was already commented by Mike and I agree with the general thrust of his comments about stories etc.

I also agree with Manfred, in so far as Fill Flash would have been a nice option to have.

But, after reading through all the thread, I'd like to add three points for your consideration :

1. A 24 to 70 or similar (rather than the 70 to 200) will be a better tool for you to use, to stretch your comfort zone experience.

2. Clutter AND poor lighting of the areas outside the main story are usually most easiest eliminated or reduced to an insignificant and unimportant portion, by simply getting closer. (Not my idea - read about Mr Capa and note that there's a awful lot of mathematical logic behind his famous quote).

3. Other people's kids are fantastic and fun Subjects: get their parents' email and send them a photo or send them two, the parents will love it. It just takes the practice of doing it, to do it.

WW

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Originally Posted by Acorn

I know what you mean, Manfred, but I put technicalities aside when I saw that little girl's wonderful face.

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One important skill that every photographer must develop is to recognize which scene is going to result in an image that will go into the trash bin, regardless of wishful thinking and fruitless effort in post-processing.

A little scenario that repeated itself frequently on our trip to Bhutan last fall; our guide was always falling over himself trying to please us. He would often ask me if I would like to get out and take a picture, and quite often I would say no. He couldn't understand why I didn't want to take a picture, when other people that he took to the places were out snapping away.

My answer was always that I knew that I could not get a good pictures because the light was no good, so I wasn't going to waste my or anyone elses time trying. I confused him even more when we went by the place again and I asked to stop so that I could get a shot, where I showed no interest the previous day. It all came down to light quality and light direction.

As you get more experienced in your shooting, you'll figure out when to walk, when to wait and when to come back with the right equipment to get the shot.

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Originally Posted by KimC

Concerning #19, yes, you are correct as to the reason I took the photo.

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Thank you for answering.

That assists me greatly to gain a better understanding of your emerging Style and Raison d'être.


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Originally Posted by KimC

Concerning #20, I have to tell you - your comment on #1 actually made me laugh - you hit the nail on the head... I took the 70-200 so I wouldn't have to get so close.

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I have a qualification in "Learn to Swim", as an Instructor.

The first instruction is the most simple of all the instructions that the Student will ever receive:
"Please get into the swimming pool."

Sometimes, though it is NOT the easiest instruction for the Student to immediately comply; sometimes coaxing is required.

WW

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Originally Posted by GrumpyDiver

One important skill that every photographer must develop is to recognize which scene is going to result in an image that will go into the trash bin, regardless of wishful thinking and fruitless effort in post-processing. . .
As you get more experienced in your shooting, you'll figure out when to walk, when to wait and when to come back with the right equipment to get the shot.

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Sage.
I concur.

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Side topic:

I have not spoken to Manfred about this, and I am not speaking for him, however it seems abundantly clear to me that Manfred’s commentary on this image is focused on assisting Kim (and others) to develop a particular area of skills and techniques and my commentary is focused on developing a DIFFERENT area of skills and techniques.

It occurs to me that this thread is more about the general development of skills and techniques, using the sample image, simply as an example for that development; rather than the thread being about a specific Comment and Critique of the sample image.

WW

Absolutely correct Bill. My approach is more along getting a decent shot (composition and lighting) and then getting the basics done in post. To me it starts with a good capture and then getting the basic framing and crop right.

Post processing is (which includes the B&W conversion) is definitely an important step, but it's a bit of a let down if the image isn't there to begin with.

Street photography is a tough subject, especially for introverts, and they tend to prefer the "sniper" approach and as they get more comfortable with this form of photography they are more ready to engage their subjects. The extroverts are the opposite and sometimes get so engaged in chatting with their subjects, they forget to the the pictures that they want. Both styles of photography have their advantages and disadvantages; getting a good sniper shot is technically difficult (as Kim is finding out) and getting the subject engaged often results in a less than satisfactory shot because the subject decides to "pose" for you. I find that a mix of both techniques usually works best for me; start with a sniper approach and when I get noticed, then engage the subject in conversation. Certain groups (the Mennonites, for instance can only be photographed sniper style and I find the same thing holds for most religious figures).

Children are of course wonderful natural subjects, as they don't have the hangups that adults do (and this includes teenagers), but in this part of the world, taking pictures of children is becoming very difficult, especially for middle aged and older males (there must be a nefarious reason that we are taking shots of children).

As for shooting with good backgrounds, getting closer is better, but there are so many variants of street photography, for instances that they are little more than an urban landscape with a person (or people) in the to what I refer to as "environment street portraiture", where it is all about the person and the environment plays a more minor role.

I guess the other reason I concentrate on getting the shot is that someone can always come back and reprocess a shot, as their PP skills improve, but if the shot is not good to begin with, then it might as well get thrown away.

As for the comments on fill light, I remember getting shocked looks when I tell people I use my Speedlights outdoors more often than I use them indoors...

This thread has developed into providing content that is so much more valuable on so many levels than what began only as critique of the posted photo.

Hi Kim :) All I want to say is that ' I loved the expression on the little girl's face'. Because there is a lot of valuable information in the comments above , no need to say anything more.

Absolutely Mike! What a great forum this is!!!

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Originally Posted by Mike Buckley

This thread has developed into providing content that is so much more valuable on so many levels than what began only as critique of the posted photo.

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