Bohemian hand made wine glasses

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Originally Posted by GrumpyDiver

I think that the SOOC argument, or perhaps the minimalist approach when it comes to processing has been with us forever. I definitely remember time when the “purists” that would print the entire negative, including the borders and perforations in 35mm film to “prove” their shots were uncropped. The ultra-purists would print on nothing other than #2 paper; no burning, dodging or tilting of easels allowed during the printing process.

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That explains why I've always felt the advocates of the SOOC or purist philosophies are driven more by a desire for increased discipline than increased creativity. Increased discipline can sometimes lead to increased creativity, so I'm not dismissing the importance of that. Even so, it doesn't always lead to increased creativity and sometimes increased creativity is born of a lack of discipline, such as when we make a mistake that results in greater creativity.

I don't buy the argument that using the discipline to get it right in the camera always becomes easier and quicker each time you do it. That can apply in certain situations, such as when making a "correct" exposure. However, when I work in my makeshift studio, there are many situations that aren't repeated often or quickly enough for the newly acquired skill or accomplishment of one setup to transfer to the next setup.

Oops! Am I ever sorry to be the cause of any existentialist discomfort!

In any cases, I feel there are a few points that are misunderstood.
English is not my main language. Neither is German. So please do
not read the words but the thoughts… thanks for your generosity.

SOOC is not a result but a discipline!…that will yield better results!
From the time we were working with 6X7, 4X5, and 8x10 cameras in
EPS/E6 processing, there were no chance of retouching, PS, or CPU
assisted post-production. The only control monitor available then was
the costly format relative "Polaroids". If it is not right on the polaroid,
why shoot! …one will only get the same but this time on a slide. This
was the ultimate worst avenue.

— "I find that the SOOC argument is far weaker in the digital world"
This is where, perhaps, lies the difference between photography and imagery!
In my book, SOOC is the approach that imposes the maximum rigour in order
to obtain the best negative or RAW file. …and I may had that it has nothing to
do with one's creativity! I posted recently a "birdie" that certainly was not a
master piece. The purpose was not to produce one but to share what I saw.
Nevertheless, the picture was funny, sharp, relatively well framed and well
exposed. All these attributes were based on an SOOC approach that gives me
a better chance to a given result. It took nothing away in terms of spontaneity
or creativity.

Occasionally, I have to remove a dust spot on the set or one on the chip… but
I rather do it within my RAW converter. Just like Adams and Karsh! Mind you,
Ansel did not have graduated filters, big blockers and such, and that's why he
had to work as much after as before the click.

Diese Arbeit muss mann genießen!
The other thing is what do you do after the click?
You just walk away in search of a other subject!
In other words, any contemplative and/or creative input in the shot must be
performed before the click… after, only imagery can perform magic. You had
the chance before. It is still the same in the digital world

Great discussion!

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Originally Posted by Kodiak

any contemplative and/or creative input in the shot must be performed before the click… after, only imagery can perform magic. You had the chance before.

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That concept more than anything helps me understand your way of thinking and it makes sense if thinking of it that way works for you.

The reason it doesn't work for me is because you're categorizing creativity as everything that happens up to the release of the shutter and imagery as everything afterward, as if imagery isn't subject to creativity when I think it is.

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Originally Posted by Mike Buckley

you're categorizing creativity as everything that happens up to the release of the shutter and imagery as everything afterward, as if imagery isn't subject to creativity when I think it is.

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NO WAY Mike!
(I'm having a hard time in English and I hate typing)

I suggested that photography happens before and imagery after. Didn't lose
a word about creativity! I said —… after, only imagery can perform magic.
This implies that the magic performed by photography happens before!

These are two different art forms. May be complementary but different.

This is what I mean by complementary disciplines:

This is a poster I created for Olivier's school commemorating John Lennon!

WaterSplashTxt.jpg

I think I understand now, though I don't understand the distinction between photography and imagery. Perhaps it's a cultural or language issue that makes it difficult for me to understand that distinction. Perhaps the distinction doesn't matter.