Eagle in Flight - Help please

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Originally Posted by jprzybyla

Go with the OR and expose for the white head and tail. If I were shooting it I would set -1 EV to keep the white highlights from clipping. Let the ISO be whatever the camera needs. Bald Eagles are a bird that needs two exposures, one for the white head and tail and another for the brown body and wings. Post processing in Lightroom use the global Basic Module to get the exposure correct for the background and use the Adjustment Brush for the exposure of the white and brown... two different exposures. Brown and white birds and black and white birds need different exposures for each color.

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Joe and Christina, I've just checked the instruction manual for my Canon 60D to see how to set exposure compensation when shooting in manual and with auto ISO. It's not possible. I'm not sure if this is true with more expensive Canons but exposure compensation can be used with auto ISO only when shooting in aperture priority, shutter priority and P. I take it from your discussion that exposure comepensation can be used on Nikons when shooting in manual?

P.S. My wife and I are visiting a raptor centre tomorrow so I'm hoping for a few shots.

Hello Bruce, on my Nikon D7000 there is a button labeled +/- it controls EV ( exposure value ). I hold that button down and turn the back wheel, I have each click on the wheel set for 1/3 f stop. On my camera counter clockwise is - exposure and clockwise is + exposure. So if I want - 1 f stop I hold the button down and turn the dial 3 clicks counter clockwise. I would do this for a white bird in bright light. I make the settings on the fly as I think necessary from experience.

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Originally Posted by jprzybyla

I know this is Christina's thread but I feel compelled to comment on Dave Humphries focusing problems with the D7100. If the active focusing point is put on a subject that area should be in sharp focus and then becoming soft as the depth of field trails off. It is possible that your lens and camera do not match up well. Cameras and lenses have to meet quality control within a range. Most times all is well but if a particular lens happens to be a +3 and a camera is a +3 that puts the focusing at +6 and out of acceptable range. If the lens is a +3 and the camera is a -3 they balance out to perfect spot on focus. There are many other combinations possible providing varying degrees of focusing. You might think of sending the camera and lens to Nikon to be adjusted. What I described is why a professional photographer when receiving a copy of a lens that doesn't focus to his expectations will send it back for another copy until one is found to match the camera. I believe that your D7100 had AF Fine Tuning in the menu but my experience with that is that it can really mess things up.

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Hi Joe,

Thanks for the advice - although I do not think my focusing problem is related to camera/lens AF mis-match, I get way too many 'bang-on' shots for that :) (at all focal lengths)

Also, for the record; no I haven't touched the D7100's AF Fine Tune yet, I understand the principles and haven't felt the need to go there. I had problems in 2009 with Sigma lenses on my D5000 (which doesn't have AF Fine Tune) and that went away a couple of time before I gave up, returned the Sigma and bought a Nikon lens - it wasn't quite "buy cheap, buy twice", but I had to pay the difference - the dealer wasn't that understanding ;)

Thanks,

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Originally Posted by jprzybyla

Hello Bruce, on my Nikon D7000 there is a button labeled +/- it controls EV ( exposure value ). I hold that button down and turn the back wheel, I have each click on the wheel set for 1/3 f stop. On my camera counter clockwise is - exposure and clockwise is + exposure. So if I want - 1 f stop I hold the button down and turn the dial 3 clicks counter clockwise. I would do this for a white bird in bright light. I make the settings on the fly as I think necessary from experience.

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Joe, this sounds like a very simple and staightforward process. I've checked on a couple of other forums and I'm not the only Canon owner who wishes the same adjustment was available.

Tomorrow will be dark hawks, etc. One option I could do is set the camera for one stop exposure bracketing and shoot in high speed machine gun mode -- the scattergun approach!

Hi Bruce,

If I remember correctly, I remember reading somewhere that Canon does not have auto iso that works when you are in manual mode. If that is true I would start with manual mode, SS 2500 to 3200, Aperture 7- 8, iso 800-1000, -.67 Exp, take a few test shot and adjust your exposure compensation and iso from there... This worked well for me on a sunny day for an eagle against the forest.. I don't know if that will work with your Canon but hopefully it is a reasonable starting point.

Best of luck, and enjoy your time with those beautiful birds!

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Originally Posted by Cantab

Joe and Christina, I've just checked the instruction manual for my Canon 60D to see how to set exposure compensation when shooting in manual and with auto ISO. It's not possible. I'm not sure if this is true with more expensive Canons but exposure compensation can be used with auto ISO only when shooting in aperture priority, shutter priority and P. I take it from your discussion that exposure comepensation can be used on Nikons when shooting in manual?

P.S. My wife and I are visiting a raptor centre tomorrow so I'm hoping for a few shots.

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Originally Posted by Cantab

I've just checked the instruction manual for my Canon 60D to see how to set exposure compensation when shooting in manual and with auto ISO. It's not possible. I'm not sure if this is true with more expensive Canons but exposure compensation can be used with auto ISO only when shooting in aperture priority, shutter priority and P

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Nikon cameras can use exposure compensation when shooting in manual exposure mode and auto ISO. However, it's not practical. I'll try to explain why, though this may get complicated beyond my ability to easily explain it.

The combination to consider is the manual exposure mode and the auto ISO mode. The auto ISO takes control of the camera. If I change either the aperture or the shutter setting, the ISO value will automatically change to compensate. As a result, the only time the exposure compensation will take effect is if the lighting, shutter and aperture settings result in the camera shooting at either the very upper or lower end of the auto ISO settings. Then and only then will the exposure compensation further adjust the exposure.

So, the important question is: why would you want to use auto ISO in combination with manual exposure? I don't shoot in manual exposure often but it seems to me that if I'm going to use manual exposure, I would also use a fixed ISO value rather than the automatically variable ISO value that occurs when using auto ISO. In that circumstance, the method of compensating for the exposure is to simply change the aperture, the shutter or the ISO to achieve an exposure that is lesser or greater than the camera's meter indicates is "correct."

Moreover, on the Nikon system when the front and rear command dials are set at the default configuration, it's not possible to change the exposure compensation and the shutter at the same time. If the front and rear command dials are changed by the user to switch their default functionality, it's not possible to change the exposure compensation and the aperture at the same time.

I hope this makes a little sense. It would probably make more sense if you got out a camera and observed the results when turning the command dials.

I looked in my D7100 manual earlier and EC does do something in Manual mode, it offsets the meter reading, so you're encouraged to select an iso/aperture/shutter speed to over/under expose accordingly. Personally, in M mode, I prefer to leave EC zero, then just read the meter and set iso/aperture/shutter speed with a visible offset on the scale.

In the User's manual, there is no mention what EC does when Auto-ISO is on, nor mention of how EC works if Auto-ISO on - i.e. I tried looking coming at it from both sides, although I may not have it explained it well either. :rolleyes:

To me, it would have seemed logical that if you do have auto-ISO on, it should make EC affect that when used, even in M mode, but I don't think that is what happens - at least the User's manual says nothing of it.

Best would be to fiddle, as Mike suggests, but it's getting late, so I won't tonight.

Hello Mike, regarding why to use Manual exposure mode with Auto ISO. I do it because it is the only way I can control my shutter speed, aperture and exposure on the fly. An example is when shooting flying birds I want a shutter speed of 1/2500 and an aperture of f8. If I chose Shutter Priority I could get the shutter speed of 1/2500 but the aperture goes to f5.6 for the lens I am using. If I chose Aperture Priority I could shoot at f8 but would not get anywhere the shutter speed needed for flying birds. If I am going to shoot a white bird ( which is very common in Florida ) I know from experience that I must lower the exposure by at least 1 stop from what the camera meters to preserve the white highlights in the feathers, so the feather detail can be recovered in post processing. So when watching the bird approach I set -1 EV, Manual will hold the shutter speed ( 1/2500 ) and aperture (fr8 ) and raises the ISO. Auto ISO must be set to on. I do this all the time in my bird photography. If the shutter speed and aperture are held fixed then the ISO must change for the exposure. When the shutter speed is set in Shutter Priority and the aperture is set in Aperture Priority Manual mode will shoot with that shutter speed and that aperture.

I've been experimenting with auto iso for the past week, and as someone who is timid about using high isos I've been pleasantly surprised at how it works in Manual mode, and I think it is useful for birds in flight because you never know what type of bird you might end up photographing or where it is going to fly.

My understanding is that auto iso works best, or perhaps only kicks in when exposure compensation is used with it. I can't remember where I read that and I think I read somewhere that it works best in combination (manual, auto iso, and exposure compensation) with spot or center weighted metering.

It is very likely that I have something technical mixed up but I think part of this is true, not sure.

Here is one link from a bird photographer

http://www.robertotoole.com/2011/12/...ird-auto-mode/

I would like to learn more about this subject.

Great link Christina, thank you for posting.

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Originally Posted by jprzybyla

I set -1 EV, Manual will hold the shutter speed ( 1/2500 ) and aperture (fr8 ) and raises the ISO. Auto ISO must be set to on.

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I don't understand, Joe. Wouldn't that combination lower the ISO rather than raise it?

More to the point, my guess is that you're using a rather limited auto ISO range of settings. The exposure compensation setting won't take effect until your settings have reached the limits set in your auto ISO.

Or perhaps I'm completely missing something?

That article Christina posted is indeed very helpful. For me, the following is its key point that answers my question of why to use auto ISO with manual mode: "With this combination enabled the camera leaves the shutter speed and aperture up to you and only adjusts the ISO value." Better yet, Joe confirmed that use.

Joe: To your point, when you do as explained in that quote from the article, does setting the exposure compensation affect the ISO that the camera chooses? If so, I understand your point. When I was experimenting with my camera, I didn't have the impression that that was happening and may have gotten that wrong.

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Originally Posted by Mike Buckley

I don't understand, Joe. Wouldn't that combination lower the ISO rather than raise it?

More to the point, my guess is that you're using a rather limited auto ISO range of settings. The exposure compensation setting won't take effect until your settings have reached the limits set in your auto ISO.

Or perhaps I'm completely missing something?

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Educate me: if you lower the exposure by -1EV, you are in essence DECREASING your exposure, then your auto ISO will raise within the limits you initially set for it. Am I correct?
Regarding whether the exposure compensation will take effect once the ISO range reaches it limits I do not know.

Bruce:confused:

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Originally Posted by Digital

Educate me: if you lower the exposure by -1EV, you are in essence DECREASING your exposure, then your auto ISO will raise within the limits you initially set for it. Am I correct?
Regarding whether the exposure compensation will take effect once the ISO range reaches it limits I do not know.

Bruce:confused:

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You are correct the ISO will raise when the exposure is decreased. When the limit set is reached then the shutter speed will lower as needed for the exposure.

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Originally Posted by jprzybyla

You are correct the ISO will raise when the exposure is decreased. When the limit set is reached then the shutter speed will lower as needed for the exposure.

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Joe, thanks for the information.


Bruce:)

Well, while not perfect these eagle shots are my best yet and will server as place markers for my next eagle shots.

As usually I was photographing other birds, and totally unprepared (except that my camera was set for BIIF) when two eagles came out of nowhere so I had no time to think or adjust my settings, and I had to shoot partially into the sun (partially backlit) but it seems the eagles are back so I hope to get another opportunity this year.


http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/...-1-2copycc.jpg


http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/...-1-2copycc.jpg


As you can see they came pretty close and I think they might have been targeting my head... I returned the next day, waited for two hours, no eagles in sight..

Until later.. One day I will post another ;)


http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/...71-1copycc.jpg

I processed in LR and dodged the back-lit wing as best as I could before noise became a problem. No critique needed, I know my focus could be sharper (it all happened too fast) and that I shouldn't clip wings...

Christina, good grab shots. Were these taken in an area where eagles collect when salmon spawning season is underway?

Thanks Bruce... No these were taken on the waterfront (ocean) in the city. There is a place about 90 minutes where I live where the eagles collect every year, in February I think, and for sure I will be visiting so I can try for a planned shot.. :)

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Originally Posted by Cantab

Christina, good grab shots. Were these taken in an area where eagles collect when salmon spawning season is underway?

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