Canon vs. Nikon

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Originally Posted by Colin Southern

To be honest, I usually just shoot a reference gray and colour card with each lighting config, and then both white balance and colour profile all the shots in a series with a few clicks in ACR (and up until that point keep the camera in auto WB mode).

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Yeah, shooting something like a Passport Colorchecker is definitely the best. Since in the JPEG stored in the RAW file that's presented by viewers (viewer demosaicing is too slow,) I like to have the correct WB for ease of review. So...just a difference in priorities.

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The 1Ds3 has options for minimum and maximum shutterspeed, although for some reason they set the fastest minimum speed to 1/60th, and the lowest maximum speed to to 1/250th (I must admit that I never really understood that decision -- possibly a mechanism to stop people thinking they had a broken camera because they mis-set those settings). To be honest, I never really use safety shift / auto ISO - I'm just not getting big enough variations in lighting to warrent it.

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It's funny how the limitations on some settings don't make any sense. Nikon has a setting called Flash Shutter Speed which defines (I think,) in A and P mode, the crossover point from fill flash to key light. So if it's set to 1/60s, the camera will set ambient exposure while lighting conditions call for a shutter of 1/60s or faster. In this case, the flash acts as a fill light. But if the lighting calls for a slower shutter speed, the shutter stays at 1/60s, underexposing the image. At this point, the flash becomes the key light. Seems straightforward enough...except for the fact that you can't set an FSS faster than 1/60s. I don't understand that limit. I tried hard over the course of many emails with Nikon to get them to explain the idea behind this setting, but to no avail. I can't see any reason why a setting of 1/120s would be a problem.

However, there are other seemingly strange limitations that have valid reasons, such as Nikon's reduced max-aperture limits when using flash with P mode and elevated ISO values (as ISO goes up, the max aperture that P mode uses gets smaller.) That's simply a flash power thing. Many people don't understand why their cameras refuse to meter in some low-light conditions...not realizing that they gone past the 0EV metering limit. So I'm pretty sure there's a sound reason for why Canon and Nikon have such limitations (at least that's what I tell myself ;) )

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This seems somewhat counter-productive to me - if I'm wanting manual control then I wouldn't want the camera changing ISO willy-nilly on me - that would be a disaster for a lot of things that I shoot. I take what you mean about the metering indication (1Ds3 has 3 stops anyway), but again, I don't think I'd want a centred meter because it wouldn't give me a true indication of where things are going to expose - especially when I have up to 7 spot-metered points graphed on the meter.

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Well Pentax cameras have an actual shooting mode, TAv, that does just that so someone must think it's a good idea. It's really nothing more than switching which parameter the camera controls in auto modes. In Av and Tv modes you also control ISO, so you always have two settings under your control. TAv mode (and manual + Auto-ISO on a Nikon) simply puts ISO under the camera's control while you control aperture and shutter. The Pentax guys seem to like it for sports.

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With regards to using it in conjunction with GNDs, good theory, but in practice, I'd never do it this way -- IMO opinion trying to balance a shot this way is flawed because it breaks the rules of local contrast; for example, if you have a scene with a sunset skyline - and a "balanced" foreground - then one would naturally expect the skyline (being incident light) to be brighter - when it's at the same level as the foreground, it just doesn't look right. Ironically, I find that 99 times out of 100, it's a 3-Stop thet I need anyway (seems to be the most common difference between incident light and reflected light coming from shadow detail that I want to protect).

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Ah, but it's great for shots where you're capturing the reflection of the scene in a lake, where you want the reflection to have the same weight as the scene...just like Steichen's The Pond - Moonlight (which sold for 2.6 million bucks :eek: ) But really, it's just like any other indicator on the camera. It's just a piece of information to use as you see fit. The balance point may be 4 EV, and knowing that you want, for example, a 2EV difference, you grab a 2EV GND. The thing to note is that it's a quick method to get some valuable information.

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Knew we'd find common ground eventually :)

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And I think we can also agree that we really like our cameras!

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Originally Posted by Graystar

Yeah, shooting something like a Passport Colorchecker is definitely the best. Since in the JPEG stored in the RAW file that's presented by viewers (viewer demosaicing is too slow,) I like to have the correct WB for ease of review. So...just a difference in priorities.

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I usually find auto WB is close enough for my purposes, except in the studio when I just set it manually to 4800K. If I'm not viewing on the camera then I'm using Bridge, which over-rides the built in JPEG anyway.

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It's funny how the limitations on some settings don't make any sense. Nikon has a setting called Flash Shutter Speed which defines (I think,) in A and P mode, the crossover point from fill flash to key light. So if it's set to 1/60s, the camera will set ambient exposure while lighting conditions call for a shutter of 1/60s or faster. In this case, the flash acts as a fill light. But if the lighting calls for a slower shutter speed, the shutter stays at 1/60s, underexposing the image. At this point, the flash becomes the key light. Seems straightforward enough...except for the fact that you can't set an FSS faster than 1/60s. I don't understand that limit. I tried hard over the course of many emails with Nikon to get them to explain the idea behind this setting, but to no avail. I can't see any reason why a setting of 1/120s would be a problem.

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Sounds like you and I have similar flat spots on our heads -- I've made many suggestions to Canon, but not many ever see the light of day :( In Canon land, Fill flash -v- primary illumination (for the flash zone) depends on the ambient light - between 10EV and 13EV they kick in auto fill flash reduction to knock it back a couple of stops.

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However, there are other seemingly strange limitations that have valid reasons, such as Nikon's reduced max-aperture limits when using flash with P mode and elevated ISO values (as ISO goes up, the max aperture that P mode uses gets smaller.) That's simply a flash power thing. Many people don't understand why their cameras refuse to meter in some low-light conditions...not realizing that they gone past the 0EV metering limit. So I'm pretty sure there's a sound reason for why Canon and Nikon have such limitations (at least that's what I tell myself ;) )

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Yeah - probably. I must admit to being "puzzled" by some decisions initially, only to gain an appreciation for their reasoning at a later date. I think that at the end of the day, both are just so darned secretive though that it's hard to gain an appreciation into some design decisions.

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Steichen's The Pond - Moonlight (which sold for 2.6 million bucks :eek: )

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Don't get me started :) I feel the same about Rhein II by Andreas Gursky!

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But really, it's just like any other indicator on the camera. It's just a piece of information to use as you see fit. The balance point may be 4 EV, and knowing that you want, for example, a 2EV difference, you grab a 2EV GND. The thing to note is that it's a quick method to get some valuable information.

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I just do it more by "feel" these days :)

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And I think we can also agree that we really like our cameras!

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Funnily enough, for me, these days, it's just a tool to translate the scene I'm presented with into the image I want to create -- in all honesty, I'm pretty unemotional about it (the first 10,000 frames were fun though :))

Hi,
Has anyone tested the ISO value of Nikon DF..? According to DXO site it has the best ISO value after Nikon D3S..

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Originally Posted by Korhan

Hi,
Has anyone tested the ISO value of Nikon DF..? According to DXO site it has the best ISO value after Nikon D3S..

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Well by the very nature of your post DXO have tested it and as it has the same sensor as the D4 (which is superior to the D3s) you'd expect it to be pretty impressive.

IMHO...the telling difference twixt the two is that Canon offers on screen histograms on the LCD screen, whereas Nikon does not. That histogram is the key to my exposure scenario. ;)

Chevy truck / Ford truck, eh? I went for Nikon because I had some Nikon lenses for my dear old 8008S, but I'm sure I'd be pleased with Canon too. Either way, I'm still trying to figure out how to make good images.

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Originally Posted by chauncey

IMHO...the telling difference twixt the two is that Canon offers on screen histograms on the LCD screen, whereas Nikon does not. That histogram is the key to my exposure scenario. ;)

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Nope - All the Nikons I've used do this too.

Manfred I usually never disagree with you, however I have to this time, one feature that Canon has and I being like you a Nikon shooter is that with some Canon cameras you can display the histogram on the rear viewer before the image is taken. This allows you to check the histogram before pressing the shutter, we only see the histogram after the image has been taken. That is one feature that I wish Nikon had.

Cheers: Allan

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Originally Posted by Polar01

Manfred I usually never disagree with you, however I have to this time, one feature that Canon has and I being like you a Nikon shooter is that with some Canon cameras you can display the histogram on the rear viewer before the image is taken. This allows you to check the histogram before pressing the shutter, we only see the histogram after the image has been taken. That is one feature that I wish Nikon had.

Cheers: Allan

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Thanks Allan - I wasn't aware of this. Not something that I would find to be a useful or significant feature, in my shooting workflow.

Just as an additional comment, my Panasonic GX7 has this feature as well, and being mirrorless, I can use it through the viewfinder. I don't use it as it takes up too much camera real estate that I need to see when composing.

Evidently it is available in live view mode but as I virtually never use live view it is not a feature I will ever miss.

I have a Nikon since only 2012, and I got it because it had, for all I know, the best sensor available in a DSLR in these days. This is, again as far as I know, still true: the Nikon 7200 I think is it though I may be wrong, the Nikon D610 and the D800(e) have sensors which surpass equivalent Canon models, not only in pixel count, but most notably also in the dynamic range.
This may change again with future models, but in these days I think this is something to be considered, as (and I remember to have been contradicted on this, but I still insist on it) the sensor is the heart, the central feature of a DSLR.

One point in favor of Canon: they have a 17mm tilt-shift lens for which there is no equivalent in Nikon lenses and which would be first on my wish-list, and as far as I know, you may get adapters for Nikon lenses to Canon, but not for Canon lenses to Nikon.

Lukas

For a newbie getting into this insane pastime consider this item oft repeated...it matters only that you choose a body after pondering lenses...as bodies regularly come and go but, glass is forever.
One would find it impossible to discern a Nikon print over a Canon print. ;)

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Originally Posted by chauncey

For a newbie getting into this insane pastime consider this item oft repeated...it matters only that you choose a body after pondering lenses...as bodies regularly come and go but, glass is forever.
One would find it impossible to discern a Nikon print over a Canon print. ;)

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There is one thing even MORE important ...

... checking the date of the first post :)

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Originally Posted by Colin Southern

There is one thing even MORE important ...

... checking the date of the first post :)

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;) Be interesting to know what the OP actually bought.

I would have probably mentioned - you will finish up buying full frame lenses so go that way from day one if you can afford it so that you can really make use of them. As to camera I would currently point some one at a Canon 6D but would wonder if the AF would work on it fitted with an F4 lens and a 2x converter.

John
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Originally Posted by Colin Southern

There is one thing even MORE important ...

... checking the date of the first post :)

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Oh damn it! How comes these old threads get revived?

Lukas

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Originally Posted by lukaswerth

Oh damn it! How comes these old threads get revived?

Lukas

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New users not checking the date of the first post :)