First Snow

Thanks Donald, I do like this one, but I also see what Dave means by being closer and feeling more in the scene, not on this shot in particular, but on my shots in general which I think is what he was commenting on, and he knows that I appreciate the feedback when he does. He keeps me from getting to content with myself. :p His comment on this set did push a button with me because I have been trying to get closer and get wider angles with my shots, but i almost always end up zooming in. I do think I'm getting better with the composition on my zoomed shots, but it's a real challenge for me to not have to use the zoom to frame and compose.

When I look at your shots of farms and around your town, you manage to get so much in the scene and everything looks like it has been placed there on purpose as part of the composition - there is a lot going on and rather than chaos I just get drawn in and find so many different things to look at. It's very difficult to explain, I'm fine with keeping things simple, but being able to capture the complexity of a scene with a lot going on and being able to do it in a way that is nice to look at is very difficult. I've tried, I don't post them because I don't like what I've done. I might have time this weekend to edit a few and post so you can see what I mean.

I'm very happy with shot #1 and I'm really happy with your comments, because I was very concious of how I framed this and under the condions I had I couldn't have included much more in the scene, but what if I could have gotten right down there and shot at a wide angle. I'm not sure I could have made it interesting because I just can't compose at a wide angle. It's one thing to zoom in because that is the best shot, but it's another to zoom in because that's the only way I know how. Does that make sense?? I'll post some shots later (for sure) and try to show you what I mean.

Wendy

Wendy, some would say you are ahead of the curve being they have trouble knowing when to zoom in. They have trouble seeing the stronger image within the image. It will all come about and I am sure you are just a click or two away. :)

#1 is a stunning image, and the black frame carries on the black of the branches, linking all of the scene. You must be pretty happy with the new camera etc

These are lovely Wendy. Top stuff. I like 'em all.

Very nice, Wendy. Number one is a beauty.

OK, this is just a test. I've resized the first shot, uploaded it to flicker and posted it here. I'm curious to see how it looks. Like I say in LR at 1:1 it looks really weird, so please, by all means pixel peep and let me know what you see. I don't want to carry on with a process only to find later down the line that I can't view them at a large size or that they look horrible when printed.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7002/6...994d374a_b.jpg
BolenderPark120611-1029_1080 by Wendy FS, on Flickr

Wendy

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Originally Posted by ScoutR

... so please, by all means pixel peep and let me know what you see.

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Just like I thought before. It's beautiful. Even more so when you see it at the larger size.

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... you manage to get so much in the scene and everything looks like it has been placed there on purpose as part of the composition - there is a lot going on and rather than chaos I just get drawn in and find so many different things to look at. It's very difficult to explain,...

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I understand the point you make. Firstly, thank you for the compliment that is in that statement.

I would offer a suggestion (that may be dismissed by some, but which makes sense to me). As you know, I go out to shoot for a B & W image. The way I see it it is that this imposes a certain discipline about keeping it simple. It is very much about lines and shapes. That is what you are really concentrating on as you look through the viewfinder or on the Liveview screen.

The consequence of that is what you state above - that everything has a place in the image. Now, I may end up with, as you say, a lot in the scene that all seems to have its place. But that is as a result of not seeing a lot in the scene, but seeing only some lines and shapes in the scene.

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Originally Posted by ScoutR

Always!! with fear and anxiety ;)

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I hope you're joking, but I know what you mean ... (see my next answer)

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Originally Posted by ScoutR

It makes perfect sense, and as usual you've picked up on another big problem that I have. COMPOSITION. I just can't seem to get a lot in a scene without it becoming chaotic. Of course the environment plays a part. For instance in the first shot I really couldn't get any closer and there was a lot of Stuff around that I did not want in the scene, so it is what it is.

The last 2 I had lots of room, but I always end up on the telephoto end of things, I can't seem to frame things right when I zoom out. It really bugs me and it's something I'm trying to work out in my head right now - so far I can visualize a scene when I drive by or stop to look, but I can't frame it right in the camera. It will take some time for me I think to be able to compose a wide angle scene. Any and all suggestions are welcome. :)

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I know this problem only too well, that's why I publish so few pictures, something that I know isn't helping me, I should be doing what you're doing here. I have so far processed only a single shot from a recent deer shoot and I prevaricated over the crop far longer than was healthy and now it is done (and on PBase, but not here), I am very unhappy with three things about it; one of these I have no real control over, but which IMO just ruins the image, another is something I forgot to do (some spot healing) and the third is sharpening artefacts :rolleyes: TBH, it was so painful and with such an unsatisfying outcome, I wonder why I did it and it stops me progressing. I have a reputation here of providing 90%+ critique for yourself and others (i.e. what to do to make a 90% 'great' image even better) and my own efforts are only 70% :( because knowing what an image needs and actually achieveing it oneself are two different things ;) which makes me uncomfortable posting anything less good than I critique others for, does that makes sense? Oh dear, I seem to have hijacked your thread with my problems now, but I hope it shows you are not alone

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Originally Posted by ScoutR

I'll have a look at this next time I go that way. I won't have the same snow conditions but I can check out the composition. What you are looking at is the far side of a very steep bank. If I back up I'll start to include foliage from the near side but I might be able to crawl down the bank on my side and shoot up, just not sure I'd still be able to see the silos. I'll be thinking about this next time I go over, it's only 5 minutes away, I'll make a project out of it to see if there is a better angle that would include the silos.

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I certainly appreciate that even if we know what we want, it is often impossible to attain without a shooting crew, temporary scaffold towers and a head for heights :)

Specifically on #1 (since Donald asked), which is very good as it stands, if possible, I estimate a shooting position somewhat forward and a little to the left would have made the right hand set of branches appear more overhead and opened up a little more gap to take the viewer into the picture, but these are minor issues.

The 1024px version is better, but not as big as I'd hoped (is this man never satisfied?), but aside from a hint of what might be CA (some odd saturated reds and cyans at snow edges), I don't see any sharpening artefacts.

But I take my hat of to you for actually going through with posting, as above, it's more than I do :(
So keep it up.

Wendy, you are doing fine and much better, I suspect, than you gave yourself credit for. I would humbly offer that you not restrict yourself in your experimentation. The more you experiment, the more options you provide yourself with and the more unexpected benefits you will uncover. In the end, you will have a wider variety of outcomes available for you to choose from for your final masterpiece. And yes, it will be a masterpiece! ;)

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Originally Posted by Donald

Just like I thought before. It's beautiful. Even more so when you see it at the larger size.


I understand the point you make. Firstly, thank you for the compliment that is in that statement.

I would offer a suggestion (that may be dismissed by some, but which makes sense to me). As you know, I go out to shoot for a B & W image. The way I see it it is that this imposes a certain discipline about keeping it simple. It is very much about lines and shapes. That is what you are really concentrating on as you look through the viewfinder or on the Liveview screen.

The consequence of that is what you state above - that everything has a place in the image. Now, I may end up with, as you say, a lot in the scene that all seems to have its place. But that is as a result of not seeing a lot in the scene, but seeing only some lines and shapes in the scene.

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Well, I think your ability to see this way is a gift. I'm not sure my brain is wired that way, but I will try to keep it in mind. I know I try to do this to a certain extent but it does not come naturally.

Wendy

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Originally Posted by Dave Humphries

I hope you're joking, but I know what you mean ... (see my next answer)

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I was joking, I count on your eyes to see things that I don't even know about. That's how I learn, but sometimes learning is difficult. I'm not keen on the technical side of things but I know it's all important.

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I know this problem only too well, that's why I publish so few pictures, something that I know isn't helping me, I should be doing what you're doing here. I have so far processed only a single shot from a recent deer shoot and I prevaricated over the crop far longer than was healthy and now it is done (and on PBase, but not here), I am very unhappy with three things about it; one of these I have no real control over, but which IMO just ruins the image, another is something I forgot to do (some spot healing) and the third is sharpening artefact's :rolleyes: TBH, it was so painful and with such an unsatisfying outcome, I wonder why I did it and it stops me progressing. I have a reputation here of providing 90%+ critique for yourself and others (i.e. what to do to make a 90% 'great' image even better) and my own efforts are only 70% :( because knowing what an image needs and actually achieving it oneself are two different things ;) which makes me uncomfortable posting anything less good than I critique others for, does that makes sense? Oh dear, I seem to have hijacked your thread with my problems now, but I hope it shows you are not alone

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Well Dave I had a look at the Red Deer and it is beautiful - the crop to my eyes is perfect. I am surprised that you even saw it the way it is camouflaged. That makes the shot for me actually - tells the story so to speak. It's not just a Red Deer, it's a Red Deer that was trying to have a rest and your shot shows how clever he was disguising himself. I love the way he is looking at you and I'm thinking you probably did not have much time for the shot because he looks like he's spotted you and is thinking about leaving.

I feel bad for you that coming home with such a good shot turned out to be a painful experience, but I think you see where you are at and it might be time to lighten up a bit. :) You said it yourself -"knowing what an image needs and actually achieving it are two different things" I think most of us are painfully aware of that, so I don't think that should keep you from posting OR critiquing.

Take the Red Deer shot for example. It is good to be able to see that there are some problems, BUT I don't see anything there that "absolutely ruins the image."

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Specifically on #1 (since Donald asked), which is very good as it stands, if possible, I estimate a shooting position somewhat forward and a little to the left would have made the right hand set of branches appear more overhead and opened up a little more gap to take the viewer into the picture, but these are minor issues.

The 1024px version is better, but not as big as I'd hoped (is this man never satisfied?), but aside from a hint of what might be CA (some odd saturated reds and cyans at snow edges), I don't see any sharpening artefact's.

But I take my hat of to you for actually going through with posting, as above, it's more than I do :(
So keep it up.

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I can try what you've suggested on this shot also, actually quite often there are some ducks or geese in that little cove. I'ts hard to find an opening though so I'm shooting from the side of the road. Hmmm, I have an idea on how I might be able to backtrack around and get there from another angle.

Regarding resizing - what dimensions are you thinking just the long side, Elements fills in the rest. Next time I'll post larger - not a problem. :)

Look forward to seeing you post a bit more in the future. :) Now if you post with halos that I can see, you are likely to get some grief, but somehow I don't see that happening.

Thanks again for the help
Wendy

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Originally Posted by ScoutR

Well Dave I had a look at the Red Deer and it is beautiful - the crop to my eyes is perfect. I am surprised that you even saw it the way it is camouflaged. That makes the shot for me actually - tells the story so to speak. It's not just a Red Deer, it's a Red Deer that was trying to have a rest and your shot shows how clever he was disguising himself. I love the way he is looking at you and I'm thinking you probably did not have much time for the shot because he looks like he's spotted you and is thinking about leaving.

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Thank you for the kind words, this was only the beginning of the encounters that day, Rebecca and I got several more opportunities. I am happy with the final crop, it's just the other stuff I messed up :eek:

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Originally Posted by ScoutR

I feel bad for you that coming home with such a good shot turned out to be a painful experience, but I think you see where you are at and it might be time to lighten up a bit. :)

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Yes, I think you're right :)

There are lots more shots, but I don't want to start 'deer wars' with Steve S :D
(He'll beat me everytime) ;)

Perhaps I'll do another this evening and start a thread.

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Originally Posted by ScoutR

Regarding resizing - what dimensions are you thinking just the long side, Elements fills in the rest. Next time I'll post larger - not a problem. :)

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Oooh, about 1000 tall and upto 1600px across is optimum, but best not to exceed either to attain the other, if you know what I mean.

These days I try to make mine fit upto 1080 x 1920 max. for my screens, both as wallpapers, and at work, I use them as rotating screen savers. The guy next to me uses the default Windows 7 ones, sure they're nice (and of places I'll never visit), but at least I can say I shot all mine myself :)

Cheers,