My workflow procedure as requested by Rob.

I think I might have a go at mapping this onto a GIMP work flow. A starter for 10 is that GIMP does not have a luminosity mode so to obtain the b/w layer where the luminosity is separated from the colours you would need to do Colours/Desaturate/Luminosity.

Jiro do you mind if I use the bird shot you made available to Rob? It will make it easier to compare the end result. Cheers

I've just been playing with this a bit more. I think because my RAW processing is quite efficient at getting the best out of a RAW shot, I'm not noticing all that much difference in this process, as I said earlier. However, I tried using 'SOFT LIGHT' blend mode instead of LUMINOSITY and that produces much better results on my shots. It's often too much though, and I have to reduce the effect with the opacity slider on the layer to about 60%, depending on the shot. Have you tried SOFT LIGHT mode?

Also, I convert the extra layer to BW using Silver Efex, and it makes a difference if you use a pre-set, rather than the default 'neutral'. What do you do, Jiro?

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Originally Posted by rob marshall

I've just been playing with this a bit more. I think because my RAW processing is quite efficient at getting the best out of a RAW shot, I'm not noticing all that much difference in this process, as I said earlier. However, I tried using 'SOFT LIGHT' blend mode instead of LUMINOSITY and that produces much better results on my shots. It's often too much though, and I have to reduce the effect with the opacity slider on the layer to about 60%, depending on the shot. Have you tried SOFT LIGHT mode?

Also, I convert the extra layer to BW using Silver Efex, and it makes a difference if you use a pre-set, rather than the default 'neutral'. What do you do, Jiro?

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I just woke up... not much coffee on my system. Hahaha!

You've learned a lot trying this process out, Rob. Cheers! The reason why you noticed that changing the blending mode from luminosity to soft light is that SOFT LIGHT affects the CONTRAST of the 2 blended layers. Luminosity affects the TONE of the blended layers, actually it affects the color and saturation, too. Did you remember your original comment about my recent images?

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Jiro

I've noticed recently your processing seems to be improving. You get good contrast, colour and tonal ranges. This shot doesn't do much for me personally, but the quality seems very good. Is it all done in Lightroom?

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That's exactly the effect that this procedure produces - an increase in the tonal range of the edited image. The good thing about photoshop ) or any other editing software is that you are FREE to play around with it. Sometimes we don't know the math behind how the process works but by experimenting and noticing the changes we can either conclude if it would work for us or not. It does not mean that if the result is not satisfactory that we cannot use it anymore. What that would probably mean is that "this process does not work with this kind of images". Still, you learned another lesson, just the other way (more like Thomas Edison before he improved the design of the fliament of the now common light bulb. Ding Ding! :D)

I did adjust the contrast of the b&w layer on my work. By simply desaturating the colored layer won't do the trick, it is too "flat". What I did is to adjust the levels sliders to further narrow down the black and white pixel distribution of the b&w layer. I can also use the curves adjustment layer command to do this by applying an S-curve to it. After bumping up the contrast of the b&w layer then I apply the change on the blending mode to luminosity (or in your case your preference to SOFT LIGHT). My experimental procedure is not fool proof. It so happens that I seem to benefited a lot from it because my camera has a very limited pixel density on the sensor.

As for the Silver Efex Pro b&w layer... that is they way to go! Unfortunately not a lot of our CiC brethren does have this with them so I did not introduce it to the equation. That, my dear friend is to your advantage. If you use the "high-structure" preset on SEP that you have that will give you far satisfactory results as you have validated it. Pretty neat, huh. :D Remember, if any of your adjustments looks too much on the end result, you can always lower down the opacity of the blended layer to bring down its effect. That's the power of layers and photoshop! Way to go, Rob! :D

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Originally Posted by Wirefox

I think I might have a go at mapping this onto a GIMP work flow. A starter for 10 is that GIMP does not have a luminosity mode so to obtain the b/w layer where the luminosity is separated from the colours you would need to do Colours/Desaturate/Luminosity.

Jiro do you mind if I use the bird shot you made available to Rob? It will make it easier to compare the end result. Cheers

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Go ahead, Steve. If you can find a possible way to make this process be applied using GIMP that would benefit our "GiIMPers" too here at CiC. Fire away Mr. Firefox! :D

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Originally Posted by jiro

As for the Silver Efex Pro b&w layer... that is they way to go! Unfortunately not a lot of our CiC brethren does have this with them so I did not introduce it to the equation. That, my dear friend is to your advantage. If you use the "high-structure" preset on SEP that you have that will give you far satisfactory results as you have validated it. Pretty neat, huh. :D Remember, if any of your adjustments looks too much on the end result, you can always lower down the opacity of the blended layer to bring down its effect. That's the power of layers and photoshop! Way to go, Rob! :D

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Yes, I did try the high structure preset in SEP for the BW layer, and that made a much more radical difference to the colour shot. Thanks for starting this thread - it's very interesting. :cool:

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Originally Posted by Chong

Now this is what you call "LEARNING". Thank you so much Willie for the enlightening explanation of your workflow. I wish you could also post up your workflow in Mono (if that is not asking too much :D) Have a nice weekend everyone! C H E E R S ! ! !

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I'll try to do that on another thread, Mario. Thank you very much for your kind words. Salamat Po. :D

Thank You both, Willie and Rob (and all the others that have contributed to this thread as well), for a most enlightening look at the process you use! I realy appreciate the fact that you both made the original files available so that others can go through the exercise, learn the techniques presented, and compare their results to yours. This has been for me one of the best 'Tutorials' I've seen on the CiC website! I can't wait to see how much I've learned as I work through the process. Can this thread be boiled down into a CiC Tutorial?

I thought I'd have a little Jiroesque moment (why not?) with a shot I took today. I added a Silver Efex BW layer with a reasonably high contrast and changed the blend mode to luminosity. I must admit (and I always hate doing that) that it does make a noticeable improvement in pop-factor. What a clever boy you are. Someone promote him!

This was the RAW shot out of the camera (G1)

http://i55.tinypic.com/51fgi.jpg

And this was after the technique was applied in CS5 and also with some dodged of the highlights. I used flash for this shot to get the front of the boats lighter.

http://backup.cambridgeincolour.com/...4ed83c24_o.jpg

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Originally Posted by rob marshall

I thought I'd have a little Jiroesque moment (why not?) with a shot I took today. I added a Silver Efex BW layer with a reasonably high contrast and changed the blend mode to luminosity. I must admit (and I always hate doing that) that it does make a noticeable improvement in pop-factor. What a clever boy you are. Someone promote him!

This was the RAW shot out of the camera (G1)

http://i55.tinypic.com/51fgi.jpg

And this was after the technique was applied in CS5 and also with some dodged of the highlights. I used flash for this shot to get the front of the boats lighter.

http://backup.cambridgeincolour.com/...4ed83c24_o.jpg

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hahaha! Awesome rework, Rob. No HDR can beat that clarity. Yeehah. :D I envy you guys with a high pixel density DSLR's. :eek: :D :p

Jiro, Rob,

That is interesting about the Silver Efex layer. I use it very occasionally, usually to please a bride with a candid shot. :)

http://backup.cambridgeincolour.com/...c02401b958.jpg

Will try the blend modes.

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Originally Posted by The Blue Boy

Jiro, Rob,

That is interesting about the Silver Efex layer. I use it very occasionally, usually to please a bride with a candid shot. :)

http://backup.cambridgeincolour.com/...c02401b958.jpg

Will try the blend modes.

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Fire away, Mark and show us some samples, too. :)

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Originally Posted by The Blue Boy

Jiro, Rob,

That is interesting about the Silver Efex layer. I use it very occasionally, usually to please a bride with a candid shot. :)

http://backup.cambridgeincolour.com/...c02401b958.jpg

Will try the blend modes.

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Good shot, Mark - both the composition and the PP.

Cheers lads,

And will have a look at this process tomorrow. :)

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Originally Posted by jiro

Here you go, Rob:

http://backup.cambridgeincolour.com/...2f05cf82_b.jpg

The 16-bit .dng file was converted to 16-bit .tiff then processed in LR 3. Exported to Photoshop CS5 still as a 16-bit .tiff file, applied the b&w version and change the blending mode to luminosity. Merged the 2 layers and then applied a sharpening layer. Combined the 2 layers again then saved as an 8-bit jpeg file for uploading to Flickr. The 8-bit jpeg file was reduced in size to 1024 pixels on the height dimension and uploaded to Flickr. :)

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I'm trying to duplicate this Jiro. I think this looks awesome. Thanks for sharing.

Sure you can, Michael. It will give any of your images that extra "oommpp" to impress your gurl. Hehehe.

Jiro

I want to thank you for this thread. It has been very informative, and I have learnt quite a lot from it. The process seems to work well (although I couldn't see it at first!) and I've incorporated it in my work flow for appropriate shots.

Many thanks.

You're most welcome, Rob. :)

Excuse me Jiro but how did you convert the image to Black and White ?
Stupid question isn't it ?
In a separate copy ?
I am confused as you understand ... Sorry :o

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Originally Posted by Antonio Correia

Excuse me Jiro but how did you convert the image to Black and White ?
Stupid question isn't it ?
In a separate copy ?
I am confused as you understand ... Sorry :o

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Jiro - I'm late on this thread, but I have the same question as Antonio. There are so many ways of constructing a black and white layer or seperate black and white image I am a bit lost to know quite what you do. I know that seperating tone and colour is a good way to post process and that the black and white (luminosity) component is more important than the colour so the way one manipulates the luminosity component can be be very important. If I have understood correctly you manipulate it with levels and/or curves, and maybe change the blending mode to soft light (Rob), but in that case why not just duplicate the full colour image, group an adjustment layer - Levels, Curves Black and White (Photoshop, don't know about Lightroom) channel mixer or whatever - and set the adjustment layer blend to luminosity?

However, if you make a black and white image in order to build the best possible black and white to blend into the colour image then you have a considerable array of tools at your disposal in Photoshop. As far as I can see you don't do that and stick to Levels and Curves to adjust overall and relative tones, which is going to be fine in the majority of images. But in that case my question remains, why make a black and white layer at all and not just group an adjustment layer set to luminosity?

I hope I haven't missed something but feel free (anybody) to put me straight if I have.

With much apologies to Antonio for neglecting to answer his question. Since both you and John has the same query I'll try to answer it both on one pass.

John, your idea sounds good. In fact, some would probably do it that way. However, on all my images, I always make my edit depending on what the image tells me. Should I make it shouting with detail and sharpness or should I make it subdued? This is the reason why a straight b&w conversion doesn't work for me. You can easily make a straight conversion just by hitting the black and white tool in photoshop (I think it started to appear from CS3 onwards) but it won't give you that much pop and punch since the contrast is the same. However, since you have all this specific color sliders available to you during the creative black and white conversion you can emphasize and de-emphasize the colors depending on your b&w edit. That is what I do. I add a level adjustment to it to use all the available contrast on the image and further push it by adding another curve adjustment layer. The curve adjustment layer is more versatile since you can adjust only a selected range of tone by using multiple points on the adjustment curve.

I have the old Silver Effects Pro version 1 with me so sometimes I use that on my b&w layer. At times, I like the versatility of the lightroom sliders so I use it, too, import it in photoshop as a totally independent layer of the original colored image. As they say, there are many ways to skin a cat. My process is just one of the ways, your suggestion is another way, too. In the end, what matters is if it is easier for you to use that technique and if it goes along with your intended effect. Hope this helps. :)