Saving of original RAW files.

I want to save my original Raw files before editing or enhancing. Do I leave them as .CR files or do I convert them to .DNG.

Gerhard - You will find about half the members telling you to do one thing and the other half telling you to do the other thing.

All of which means that either is okay.

All of my Raw files are saved in Canon's native .CR2 format.

Thank you

Nikon's .nef always. You can sidecar the .dng if you like. I don't think it changes the file size.

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Originally Posted by ccphoto

Nikon's .nef always. You can sidecar the .dng if you like. I don't think it changes the file size.

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Chris - Perhaps if Gerhard is just starting out and learning about saving Raw files he might not need to think about sidecar files (I don't), but also might appreciate you explaining what that is and what the pluses and minuses of doing such a thing would be.

I just wish to keep the original and do not wish to have a edited raw file. I am shooting in Raw only since 2013

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Originally Posted by Gerhard Human

I want to save my original Raw files before editing or enhancing.

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Hello Gerhard,

When you upload the raw file files to your computer from the camera, they then exist on your computer with no need to "save" them - because they are already there.. As far as I know for your camera, editing or enhancing does not change the original raw file image data in any way. And the only way you can 'save' them as identical raw files is by copying them with your computer's operating system. So, by "save", did you mean backing them up in that way?

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Do I leave them as .CR files or do I convert them to .DNG?

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Personally I would not convert them to DNG because your original image data then becomes subject to a third party's (not Canon's and not yours) idea of how your colors, black and white levels, and white balance should look.

Not unlike when you open a proprietary raw file in LR or ACR - you get Adobe's conversion, not Canon's. People bothered by that are quite likely to use the camera manufacturer's converter then export from it as e.g. TIFF for further processing in their editor of choice.

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Originally Posted by Gerhard Human

I just wish to keep the original and do not wish to have a edited raw file. I am shooting in Raw only since 2013

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There is a misunderstanding. Raw files can not be edited. See my earlier post #7.

I would agree with Ted, Gerhard.

When you load the files onto your computer from your camera, that's them saved onto your computer. Now, of course, you can move them about to another folder or whatever, but you have captured them onto your computer.

From what you have already written, it sounds as if you use Canon equipment, hence them being saved as .CR' files.

So, to be more accurate, your first question is really - 'Should I keep them as .CR2 files or should I convert them to .DNG files?

Like Ted, I see no reason to convert them and keep all my files as .CR2s

Then the conversation moved onto editing.

And again, it's true to say that you never actually edit a Raw file, although that is a 'shorthand' term people use. What you do is make adjustments on the Raw file. But to then save those adjustments, you have to save the file as something else; e.g. a TIFF file, or a JPEG file. Although on the Raw file you can see the adjustments that you did make, you have not edited the Raw file.

One way of thinking about it is that those adjustments are just sitting on top of your original Raw file. All the original information that came out of your camera is still there. So you have not changed the Raw file. You can undo all the adjustments you made and get right back to what you originally had out of the camera. Of course, you still have your newly created TIFF or JPEG file as well.

I hope this helps you understand what a Raw file is and, as importantly, what it is not.

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Originally Posted by xpatUSA

Raw files can not be edited.

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Purely as a point of accuracy, raw files can indeed be edited, at least Nikon's raw files can be edited. Users have the choice of storing the edits in the raw file or in a sidecar file if the editing software they are using provides those options.

I will show it again. I think it's helpful special for tis question.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-d.../s640/flow.jpg


The sensor data/color filter array is what one calls the raw-file. There is more in it but not important for this question. Every pixel has a Red, Green or Blue value. So one value.
Your raw-data is converted to a RGB-raster image in memory. That's the image you use when you're working on it. Every pixel has a Red, Green and Blue value. Pay attention to the or and and differences.
Your editing is done on that RGB image in memory. That image is send to the screen so you can see it, or to the printer so you can print it. That image can be send to disk so you can save it, and load it again in memory to work again on it. There're different diskfiles with their own specialities. As you can see between the image in memory and the diskfiles the line is two directional. All the other lines are one directional.

George

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Originally Posted by Mike Buckley

Purely as a point of accuracy, raw files can indeed be edited, at least Nikon's raw files can be edited. Users have the choice of storing the edits in the raw file or in a sidecar file if the editing software they are using provides those options.

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Yes. But the editing is not done on the raw data. Editing is saved as a list with pp commands.

George

George

Gerhard - Sometimes discussions can go a well beyond what you have asked. Please do not get confused or alarmed by what might seem like discussions that do do away beyond your understanding. Please do just extract the information that is relevant to you.

I open my RAW files using Adobe Bridge (I use PS-CS6 as my editing program). I save the files that I want to retain in a folder and discard the files that I don't want to keep. These are saved as native .CR2 files.

I then do whatever editing I feel that is needed (EXCEPT: cropping and final output sharpening) and I save these master images as Photoshop Documents in the same folder as I saved the .CR2 files. Therefore, I have two files of every image in the same folder, one file as the original .CR2 and the second file a master .PSD which has been edited in all aspects EXCEPT: final cropping and final output sharpening.

I will often need my images in more than one crop and/or more than one size. An example of differing needs is when I need an image in a 600 pixel square format at 72 ppi for posting on rescue sites and then I may need a larger, high definition image at 300 ppi in a horizontal (landscape) format for calendar creation.

I can go back to my master image at any time and work on it, saving it to whatever new size and format that I need. However, in returning to the master image, I don't have to reinvent the wheel and start from scratch. I will still have the original RAW .CR2 image as well as a full size, uncropped image saved as a Photoshop document .PSD.

I love just about everything about shooting RAW images. I especially like the fact that the RAW image is never corrupted or changed, whatever editing that I do on that image.

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Originally Posted by Mike Buckley

Purely as a point of accuracy, raw files can indeed be edited, at least Nikon's raw files can be edited. Users have the choice of storing the edits in the raw file or in a sidecar file if the editing software they are using provides those options.

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Yes, Sigma can also save the adjustments as meta-data into the X3F file and un-save them too. I didn't want to mention that complication because a) the raw image data itself remains un-changed, and b) I am not familiar with the converter that the OP uses for his Canon raw files.

Pure semantics, I suppose. To me an "edit" means changed image data but a saved "adjustment" does not.

Going a little deeper, the position of an adjustment slider represent a change to the temporary working file on the disk, not to the image data in the still-open raw file.

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Originally Posted by Donald

Then the conversation moved onto editing.

And again, it's true to say that you never actually edit a Raw file, although that is a 'shorthand' term people use. What you do is make adjustments on the Raw file.

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Slightly misleading wording, Donald, although I do get your meaning. The raw file is opened but adjustments are not "made on it". Normal converters create a temporary working file in the computer and all adjustments are thereafter made on the temporary file, not the original raw file. If the user does not 'save', 'save as' or 'export', then that temporary file disappears and the raw file is closed unchanged in any way. Otherwise, the temporary file gets saved with all the edits included.

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Originally Posted by Gerhard Human

I want to save my original Raw files before editing or enhancing. Do I leave them as .CR files or do I convert them to .DNG.

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Hi Gerhard

A Google search such as "dng vs raw" will bring up a host of discussions on this topic and there is no point in me re-gurgitating these arguments. Suffice to say that you need a compelling reason to convert to dng and I haven't found one for my circumstances. The only situation I can think of in which it might be necessary is if you are using a non cc Adobe product that doesn't support your camera raw files.

My basic concern with DNG is that it is an Adobe standard and there is no obligation on other software companies to support it. It is true of course that the camera maker's raw files are to their own standards as well but the camera manufacturers rule the roost (as they are first in the chain if you like) and software companies have to live with it. I can't see camera manufacturers ever agreeing to use dng as a universal standard!

Dave

Gerhard, I like Dave, Donald and a good few others, keep all my raw captures for security.
I investigated the DNG concept many years ago, and came to the conclusion that it does not provide any advantage over the original raw capture.

I periodically, approximately every 3-4 months, create an offline copy of recent shoots (original raw & processed psd).
On an annual basis, I consolidate these 'backup' files to create an archive for the full year's shoots. These are also stored offline.

I saved my RAW files in the DNG format during my trip to Europe and Turkey. I did not necessarily like the results and have saved my files as CR2 ever since. My problem with DNG might have been user error or even my imagination. However, the advantages of DNG did not seem to warrant my saving images that way...

I shoot Canon, and I have never seen the advantage of converting my raw files to DNG format. I keep all of mine as CR2 files.