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Thread: Last Deer Photo

  1. #1
    Jim B.'s Avatar
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    Last Deer Photo

    I promise this is the last.I have been practicing the selective sharpening techniques that were suggested to me on my last post.
    The original:
    Last Deer Photo

    I haven't done anything to the BG.I'm still practicing cloning.
    My edit:
    Last Deer Photo

    Comments please.

    Regards,
    Jim

  2. #2
    Moderator Dave Humphries's Avatar
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    Re: Last Deer Photo

    Sharpening wise, it looks very good to me Jim.

    I'm no expert, but if you have a mask for the selective sharpening (you may not if you did it like I do ), you should be able to use the inverse of it to be sure the cloning only touches the background. Don't ask me for more on this, as it's something I have yet to accomplish, but I'm sure some of the others can help.

    Cheers,

  3. #3
    Jim B.'s Avatar
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    Re: Last Deer Photo

    Dave,

    I haven't started using layers yet.I used lasso tool to isolate the deer.I then did global sharpening on the deer and used sharpen tool on the eyes and the whiskers.Thanks for the suggestion on masks.
    Regards,
    Jim

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    Re: Last Deer Photo

    looks good to me too, but again I'm not the one to ask. Adding layer mask is easiest way for me, purely because I like easy and it saves time and effort. It's as simple as clicking "add layer mask" and painting on this mask with a black or white brush (depending on whether you want that part of the masked image to show or not). The good thing is you can use various shades of white to black (I use true black rgb /true white and vary opacity to achieve this quickly and easily) brush so it's not an all or nothing effect. eg you can completely paint the background out to exclude that from sharpening and for the deer make some areas more sharp than others.

    I didn't take me long to get used to masks, anyone can do it and it's easy when get the hang of it, again it's just familiarity. Seems off putting at first but stick with it and you'll have it in no time. I don't have much knowledge relatively speaking so others here more able to help but the best advice I can give is just enjoy yourself. Sounds like a stupid point but it makes a big difference and it's easy for people to forget that step (as strange as it sounds), I remember the only subjects I found hard to study for was the ones I didn't enjoy (urrgh physical biochem used to bore me ridgid so I never really learned anything even when put effort in but when I enjoyed other stuff I'd remember stuff including complex bits without revising just purely through enjoying it and taking interest it naturally sunk in fully).

    The other good thing about learning layer mask techniques is you can apply it to all kinds of other processing (not just sharpening) including ones where the graduated nature (in essence 255 levels I guess, correct me if I'm wrong) makes it useful where an all or nothing effect wouldn't be suitable (ie a selective saturation adjustment across a very varied image).

  5. #5
    Jim B.'s Avatar
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    Re: Last Deer Photo

    Davey,

    Thank you for your comment and encouragement.I'm having great fun with all the aspects of producing images.I have been reading the manual about layers and masks and have a pretty good idea of what is involved.I wanted to get relatively comfortable with sharpening because, for me, it has a noticeable impact on the final image.

    I have a lot to learn and understand that I won't reach the level I want overnight.Each time I get out to shoot I make some progress in my understanding of camera settings and technique.

    I have gained a lot of knowledge from listening to others with more experience.Your help is appreciated.
    Regards,
    Jim

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    Re: Last Deer Photo

    Jim,

    since you like deers, got a questions for you.
    I have a bunch around my house (and yes the corn we feed them helps that...) but I always have 2 issues.

    1/ it's somewhat later in the day, close to sunset
    2/ the background is usually trees, which are pretty much in the same brown color range...

    so any advice to capture those (on sensor of course) and make sure in the meantime they won't just blend into the background?

    Thanks
    Vincent

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    Jim B.'s Avatar
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    Re: Last Deer Photo

    Hi Vincent,

    Shooting at dusk is tough.Get as close as possible and try to keep the DoF shallow so that you get decent BG blur.I'm still working on that myself.Even in bright sunlight the deer still blend into the trees fairly well.
    In your situation I would possibly think about off camera flash,but I don't know what kind of problems you would get with eye glow.
    I would try it here myself,but I seek the deer out because they don't come near my house.
    My telephotos are both f/4s.Faster glass would be a big help also.It all depends on what you are after.In my limited experience headshots are easier to deal with than full body shots when it comes to getting good focus and seperation.Headshots,you want to have your focus point on the eyes.
    Regards,
    Jim

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    Re: Last Deer Photo

    Hi Jim,

    Sorry mate - but I think the 2nd photo is oversharpened. Looking at the deer in relation to the background in the top shot, they "go together" - but in the 2nd the contrast between the sharpened and unsharpened area is too much - and it looks un-natural. And in the 2nd it's getting a tad frosty on the high-frequency parts.

    I'm not on my Photoshop PC so I can't test - but I'd suggest trying a very low-radius gausean blur over the 2nd one just to take the edge off it. Personally I think that the first shot is only a little undersharpened, and actually looks better.

    I used to do sharpening like that - working on a theory that "the sharper the better" - but if you were to look at a shot like that in a high-quality magazine I bet you'd find that they'd have it only a tad sharper than the 1st one. If you're trying to make it "pop" with sharpening only the subject, it only works to a point; bokah increases smoothly with distance from the in-focus plane, whereas going from sharp to unsharp abruptly doesn't simulate a tight depth of field (unfortunately!).

  9. #9
    Jim B.'s Avatar
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    Re: Last Deer Photo

    Hi Colin,

    I get what you are saying.It does look too drastic.I should have stopped instead of running a final sharpening pass.I'll give your instructions a go.I also have been practicing with cloning and blurring tools on another picture.I'm ready to tackle the BG in this image to smooth it out some, like Chris' edit to my "One from the Woods" post.Do you think it's a good idea to help push the deer forward?
    If so,do you have any suggestions on a technique?

    Regards,
    Jim

  10. #10

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    Re: Last Deer Photo

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim B. View Post
    Do you think it's a good idea to help push the deer forward? If so,do you have any suggestions on a technique?
    Hi Jim,

    To be honest, probably not a lot I can contribute with regards to PP backgrounds. Faking a tight DoF is actually quite hard because the transition between foreground and background is too abrupt - all I can suggest is putting around a 2 pixel select around the foreground subject and applying a slight blur to help it merge with the background (more of a technique for compositing, but same theory applies). Anytime you find yourself creating a select for a foreground object for this reason I'd be inclined to think *** Danger Will Robinson ***.

    Best solution to this kind of issue that I can thing of is to simply shoot the animal with a fast lens wide open (the old "get it right in camera" technique!).

  11. #11
    atvinnys's Avatar
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    Re: Last Deer Photo

    Jim,

    finally had a chance to get some pictures of those guys while the sun was still out.
    and you are right, need to have the eyes in focus...(I trashed many bc of that...)

    here is my take on those..
    my take on deers...

  12. #12
    Jim B.'s Avatar
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    Re: Last Deer Photo

    Hi Colin,

    I appreciate all the help you have given me.I definitely need to get more time in with my 300mm.

    Regards,
    Jim

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    Re: Last Deer Photo

    Jim, just as an example of focus fading have a look at this shot, lens wide open
    Rainbow on Grevillea.

    Gives me a chance to show off again

  14. #14
    Jim B.'s Avatar
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    Re: Last Deer Photo

    Hi Vincent,

    Saw your deer pics post.Nice job.I've dumped a lot of my photos because of poor focus and a few becasue I had brush in the way.Just keep at it.

    Jim

  15. #15
    Jim B.'s Avatar
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    Re: Last Deer Photo

    Bill,

    WOW! Beautiful capture.I need to start shooting the 300 without a TC on it.With theTC the focus drop off is abrupt.Your photo is just stunning!
    Thanks,
    Jim

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