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Thread: ColorChecker Passport Camera Profiles (Software Option/s)

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    ColorChecker Passport Camera Profiles (Software Option/s)

    Hi, I use Lightroom 6 but it is getting on a bit now, I also make camera profiles with L/R and the CCP, not wanting to go down the Adobe route anymore so anyone no what other software allows you to make your own camera profiles with the CCP? Thankyou, Russ

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    Administrator Manfred M's Avatar
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    Re: ColorChecker Passport Camera Profiles (Software Option/s)

    So far as I understand, x-Rite only supports .dng profiles, which are only used in Adobe software. Capture One and DxO PhotoLab, I believe, use ICC profiles. These are not interchangable / compatible with dng profiles.

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    Re: ColorChecker Passport Camera Profiles (Software Option/s)

    Russ I think we need more info on where you are heading with this. Manfred's comments above are spot on. So if you are planning on moving away from Lightroom and Adobe for editing, then you will most likely require .icc camera profiles if you want to make your own.

    There is a relatively new piece of software called Lumariver Profile Designer which can make both .dcp and .icc profiles which has received good reviews in some quarters. The basic edition is 30euro but it only does .dcp profiles. The Pro edition does .icc profiles as well but it costs 100euro!

    I use Rawdigger Profile Edition together with Argyll software to make .icc profiles for AfterShot Pro but it is not the easiest process to use and I wouldn't dive into that if I were you.

    Another complication is that .icc profiles can have various forms (with matrices and lookup tables) and the requirements can vary from one piece of software to another. It's not always easy to find out what form a particular piece of software requires.

    Generally I have found that making your own .icc profiles can take a lot of effort for little gain!

    Dave

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    Re: ColorChecker Passport Camera Profiles (Software Option/s)

    Hi, Thankyou for the replies. Dave as you no Adobe has in the RAW options to attach a camera profile to an image ie. Landscape, As shot, Etc,etc these as far as I no are made for whatever camera an image is taken with but they are I suppose the best words here are guess work as even the same branded cameras do not all work quite the same when it comes to colour. With the CCP and a DNG file you can take and make a camera profile that is I would guess 99.9% correct for that camera in my case a Canon 6D but that same profile would not give the same results from my 70D with the exact same settings in the same situation but you probably already no all this. It takes only a couple of minutes to make a camera profile and for me when I compare my own profile against Adobe guess worked profile there is a difference in the overall colours. Yes I suppose that this could achieved in post but would take a lot longer than a couple minutes of moving sliders around. I use the X-Rite system from monitor calibration (ColourMunki Photo) to camera calibration and W/B. I have now replaced Photoshop CS6 with Affinity Photo and that intergrates with Lightroom so maybe just hold onto Lightroom for the camera calibration side of things. Thanks again for the replies. Russ
    PS. After writing reply I found this on youtube and for those who may be interested in creating camera profiles it is worth a watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fikTm8XIt4

    Russ
    Last edited by russellsnr; 8th December 2017 at 09:21 AM.

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    dje's Avatar
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    Re: ColorChecker Passport Camera Profiles (Software Option/s)

    Quote Originally Posted by russellsnr View Post
    Hi, Thankyou for the replies. Dave as you no Adobe has in the RAW options to attach a camera profile to an image ie. Landscape, As shot, Etc,etc these as far as I no are made for whatever camera an image is taken with but they are I suppose the best words here are guess work as even the same branded cameras do not all work quite the same when it comes to colour. With the CCP and a DNG file you can take and make a camera profile that is I would guess 99.9% correct for that camera in my case a Canon 6D but that same profile would not give the same results from my 70D with the exact same settings in the same situation but you probably already no all this. It takes only a couple of minutes to make a camera profile and for me when I compare my own profile against Adobe guess worked profile there is a difference in the overall colours. Yes I suppose that this could achieved in post but would take a lot longer than a couple minutes of moving sliders around. I use the X-Rite system from monitor calibration (ColourMunki Photo) to camera calibration and W/B. I have now replaced Photoshop CS6 with Affinity Photo and that intergrates with Lightroom so maybe just hold onto Lightroom for the camera calibration side of things. Thanks again for the replies. Russ
    Russ I'm using Affinity as a replacement for CS6 too but I'm not using it's raw Develop module. Instead I'm using Aftershot Pro 3 for raw conversion. As far as I know, the raw Develop module in Affinity doesn't have the facility to use external camera profiles so I'd say you'll have to stick with LR for that. If your comfortable with that then that's fine. The difficulties I was referring to in my previous post were in relation to icc
    Profiles rather than Adobe dcp profiles. Adobe users are better catered for when it comes to camera profiling!

    Dave

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    Administrator Manfred M's Avatar
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    Re: ColorChecker Passport Camera Profiles (Software Option/s)

    Russell - if you check with x-Rite, you will see that they ONLY support Adobe products when it comes to supporting .dng profiles:

    http://xritephoto.com/ph_product_ove...ction=overview


    Compatible Software Supporting DNG Profiles:

    Adobe® Lightroom® 2.0 or newer
    Adobe® Photoshop® Camera Raw 4.5 or newer
    Adobe® Photoshop® CS3 or newer
    Adobe® Photoshop® Elements 7 or newer
    Adobe® Bridge CS3 or newer

    The need for a custom profile seems to be related to a specific camera model. There was a significant difference between the supplied profiles that come with the Adobe products and with the Nikon D800, but with the D810, the differences are much more subtle. Unfortunately, there is no way to tell how good other software's profiles are.
    Last edited by Manfred M; 8th December 2017 at 11:23 AM.

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    Administrator Manfred M's Avatar
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    Re: ColorChecker Passport Camera Profiles (Software Option/s)

    Quote Originally Posted by russellsnr View Post
    PS. After writing reply I found this on youtube and for those who may be interested in creating camera profiles it is worth a watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fikTm8XIt4
    This is a very good tutorial Russell and is quite in line with my understanding of the dng profiling process. He even gives you the answer you are looking for. If you want to use dng profiles without sticking with Adobe, the Iridient raw converter is a solution. It sells for around $US30, so is quite affordable; although it looks like there will be a need to pay out every 18 months or so as new versions come out..

    http://iridientdigital.com/

    Let me take exception to one or two points that he makes in the video:

    1. The usefulness of a tungsten profile - 10 - 15 years ago I would have agreed with him as the predominant source of artificial lighting was tungsten and shooting under those conditions would have been a fairly frequent occurrence. Over the past few years traditional tungsten lights have been phased out and replaced by other light sources including compact fluorescent, halogen, LED, etc. These all have significantly different response curves, so which one to pick.

    My solution is to do a custom profile; effective a "one shot" approach under those lighting conditions, if I need supreme colour accuracy and then use it only for that shoot.

    2. He does not mention flash at all. While flash does have some characteristics of "daylight", the source is not sunlight, so the curve will be different than daylight. This is even more important as the flash tubes age, the colour of the quartz flash tube will yellow, so the curve will change over time.

    I have two working profiles that I use; daylight and flash.

    Unfortunately, I do not own a photospectrometer (just a colourimeter), so do not have the tools to do an advanced analysis of light sources.

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    Re: ColorChecker Passport Camera Profiles (Software Option/s)

    Quote Originally Posted by Manfred M View Post
    This is a very good tutorial Russell and is quite in line with my understanding of the dng profiling process. He even gives you the answer you are looking for. If you want to use dng profiles without sticking with Adobe, the Iridient raw converter is a solution. It sells for around $US30, so is quite affordable; although it looks like there will be a need to pay out every 18 months or so as new versions come out..

    http://iridientdigital.com/

    Let me take exception to one or two points that he makes in the video:

    1. The usefulness of a tungsten profile - 10 - 15 years ago I would have agreed with him as the predominant source of artificial lighting was tungsten and shooting under those conditions would have been a fairly frequent occurrence. Over the past few years traditional tungsten lights have been phased out and replaced by other light sources including compact fluorescent, halogen, LED, etc. These all have significantly different response curves, so which one to pick.

    My solution is to do a custom profile; effective a "one shot" approach under those lighting conditions, if I need supreme colour accuracy and then use it only for that shoot.

    2. He does not mention flash at all. While flash does have some characteristics of "daylight", the source is not sunlight, so the curve will be different than daylight. This is even more important as the flash tubes age, the colour of the quartz flash tube will yellow, so the curve will change over time.

    I have two working profiles that I use; daylight and flash.

    Unfortunately, I do not own a photospectrometer (just a colourimeter), so do not have the tools to do an advanced analysis of light sources.
    http://iridientdigital.com/ MAC only

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    Administrator Manfred M's Avatar
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    Re: ColorChecker Passport Camera Profiles (Software Option/s)

    Quote Originally Posted by russellsnr View Post
    No; 64-bit versions of Windows from Windows 7 through current as well as Mac. Look at the download page.

    http://iridientdigital.com/products/..._download.html

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    Re: ColorChecker Passport Camera Profiles (Software Option/s)

    Quote Originally Posted by Manfred M View Post
    Russell - if you check with x-Rite, you will see that they ONLY support Adobe products when it comes to supporting .dng profiles
    Sorry but can we say something else instead of ".dng profiles"? - because ".dng" is Adobe's extension for their "digital negative" file type, not profile file types, which are .icc, .icm, .dcp or .lcp. That would be in spite of x-Rite's terminology i.e. "DNG profile".

    Of course "most people" understand what was meant; but pity the poor noob who opens a file and tries to assign <name.dng> as a profile . . or would that really work? Just askin'

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    Administrator Manfred M's Avatar
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    Re: ColorChecker Passport Camera Profiles (Software Option/s)

    Quote Originally Posted by xpatUSA View Post
    Sorry but can we say something else instead of ".dng profiles"? - because ".dng" is Adobe's extension for their "digital negative" file type, not profile file types, which are .icc, .icm, .dcp or .lcp. That would be in spite of x-Rite's terminology i.e. "DNG profile".

    Of course "most people" understand what was meant; but pity the poor noob who opens a file and tries to assign <name.dng> as a profile . . or would that really work? Just askin'

    Writing .dcp file would be technically correct, but when I have used that term in the past, no one understood what I was on about. The moment I said ".dng profile", people knew.

    In my experience it is often better to not be quite technically correct and have people understand than to be technically correct and have not people understand. Yes, educating people should include the correct information, but when dealing with non-technical people, that is not always going to work.

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    Re: ColorChecker Passport Camera Profiles (Software Option/s)

    Quote Originally Posted by Manfred M View Post
    Writing .dcp file would be technically correct but, when I have used that term in the past, no one understood what I was on about. The moment I said ".dng profile", people knew.
    Sad, but I take the point.
    Last edited by xpatUSA; 8th December 2017 at 04:13 PM.

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    Re: ColorChecker Passport Camera Profiles (Software Option/s)

    Quote Originally Posted by Manfred M View Post
    No; 64-bit versions of Windows from Windows 7 through current as well as Mac. Look at the download page.

    http://iridientdigital.com/products/..._download.html
    Hi, Thankyou for that when I looked at the first URL you gave above I didn't see the Windows option, Russ

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