Any ideas?

[KimC]

Hi. I have a friend in the US, specifically CT, looking for someone who can photograph his high gloss ceramic artwork. He has had no luck, between places closing up shop, to not being called back. Is there someplace you might recommend where he can look for someone reputable with this skill set? Thank you for your ideas.

[Steaphany]

Have them check out Wonderful Machine

The Professional Photographers of America also offeres a Find a Photographer
.

[KimC]

That first link is extremely helpful! Thanks a bunch!

Have them check out Wonderful Machine

The Professional Photographers of America also offeres a Find a Photographer

[Loose Canon]

Not being from CT I couldn’t say who might be local who could fill the bill Kim.

But I was just curious. What kind of photography is your friend looking for?

Juried art show submissions? Web site sales? High end art work and/or production line?

The reason I ask is because I have done and still do some work for some local glass blowing artists. There are some qualifications that must be met depending on the purpose. Not to mention if the jurors for a show even know what they want and this seems to be a huge gray area! Then for web sales they want something else! These artists have never been able to find a real photographer who would even touch their product due to the difficulty involved.

Next inquiry? Why don’t you take the gig yourself? You can do it and this would be a huge opportunity.

[KimC]

Hi Terry. Thanks for your comment.

I know it's at least for the web; he mentioned Esty specifically.

I didn't offer to help him as I don't feel I have the skill set or the right equipment from a lighting perspective;only have my speed light and my ice light. His stuff is beautiful and very high gloss ceramic. I agree it would be a great learning opportunity, but without a mentor, I didn't feel it was appropriate.

Not being from CT I couldn’t say who might be local who could fill the bill Kim.

But I was just curious. What kind of photography is your friend looking for?

Juried art show submissions? Web site sales? High end art work and/or production line?

The reason I ask is because I have done and still do some work for some local glass blowing artists. There are some qualifications that must be met depending on the purpose. Not to mention if the jurors for a show even know what they want and this seems to be a huge gray area! Then for web sales they want something else! These artists have never been able to find a real photographer who would even touch their product due to the difficulty involved.

Next inquiry? Why don’t you take the gig yourself? You can do it and this would be a huge opportunity.

[jcuknz]

I would ssuggest that the extra equipment you need should not cost a bomb .... some muslin cloth, some string to hang the cloth on, and whatever is needed to secure the string to walls etc.
Basically high gloss subjects reflect whatever they are mirroring so we provide an even wrap around to avoid reflecting what we do not want except for gaps in the surround to organise a black line [ assuming the room is dark compared to the light on the subject] One experienced tog suggested the black rolls of paper which his MF film came with.
Attaching a torch to the flash unit can help to show what it will do, though with digital trial/test shots are so easy to do.
This was taken in my bedroom back in the sixties with muslin, white card, sheet of glass and a couple of photofloods with the couple of high spots treated in editing now it is so easy with our editing programmes.

"after the party' or "I'm driving"



This is a copy off a print and originally taken with my MF Rolleiflex with the additional problems of while the pair of lens give focus and coverage at the focus distance you need a 'rack-up' arrangement to lift the camera the distance between the lens .. I used the rising column of my tripod ... today I am not sure it was worth the trouble

Altogether with the skills you have demonstrated here at CiC I think you could do a good job so long as you have the time to repeat shots which you feel are lacking.
Studio work takes time .. this took me a whole evening to rig and shoot [blind with film ] and so often we have heard of professionals walking in without the particular skills needed and doing an unsatisfactory job from the customers POV. And costing!

[KimC]

Thanks for the information you shared and the vote of confidence John.

I like the name of your image -- made me smile.

I would ssuggest that the extra equipment you need should not cost a bomb .... some muslin cloth, some string to hang the cloth on, and whatever is needed to secure the string to walls etc.
Basically high gloss subjects reflect whatever they are mirroring so we provide an even wrap around to avoid reflecting what we do not want except for gaps in the surround to organise a black line [ assuming the room is dark compared to the light on the subject] One experienced tog suggested the black rolls of paper which his MF film came with.
Attaching a torch to the flash unit can help to show what it will do, though with digital trial/test shots are so easy to do.
This was taken in my bedroom back in the sixties with muslin, white card, sheet of glass and a couple of photofloods with the couple of high spots treated in editing now it is so easy with our editing programmes.

"after the party' or "I'm driving"


This is a copy off a print and originally taken with my MF Rolleiflex with the additional problems of while the pair of lens give focus and coverage at the focus distance you need a 'rack-up' arrangement to lift the camera the distance between the lens .. I used the rising column of my tripod ... today I am not sure it was worth the trouble

Altogether with the skills you have demonstrated here at CiC I think you could do a good job so long as you have the time to repeat shots which you feel are lacking.
Studio work takes time .. this took me a whole evening to rig and shoot [blind with film ] and so often we have heard of professionals walking in without the particular skills needed and doing an unsatisfactory job from the customers POV. And costing!

[KimC]

I learned today that my friend got frustrated with not getting return phone calls from the professional product photographers so he resorted to taking the pictures himself and posting on his social media site.

So, here's my question, I was reluctant to help him because a past mentor drilled into my head that I lacked such skills and I would be taking work away from a professional. I know I could have done WAY better than what he is posting, but I also understand the point my past mentor made. I would appreciate to hear other views on this type of issue.

[Donald]

So, here's my question, I was reluctant to help him because a past mentor drilled into my head that I lacked such skills and I would be taking work away from a professional.

I'm delighted to read that this person is now a past mentor.

It sounds to me, Kim, that this is about self-belief and confidence. Your former mentor seems to have done an excellent job in undermining your confidence and ensuring that you didn't have a chance to develop your self-belief.

No, maybe you don't have all the skills that a professional might have. Neither do I. But you do have commitment and enthusiasm. And you ain't ever going to get the skills unless you get the experience and the opportunity to learn. You know you can produce good quality images. You've done it on here.

Why not say to your friend that you'd love to try and photograph his pieces and if he likes them, he could use them on his website.

[Rita]

Well said Donald!

[James G]

I'm delighted to read that this person is now a past mentor.

+1 to Donald's comment Kim.

Mentoring is about being able to let someone share their difficulties with a person they trust, feel safe with and can learn from, or get honest developmental advice from.

I'd guess that in one way or another you have already been doing it, 'naturally and informally' with friends, family, work colleagues etc. You are not required to be right, only to be honest and provide guidance based on what you would do.

I'd seriously consider going back to your friend and offer your help. After all, you have just told CiCs

I know I could have done WAY better than what he is posting

I suspect he will be very happy to find he has a friend who wants to help.

[Mike Buckley]

I also understand the point my past mentor made.

I never have understood your past mentor's point and I never will. It's the responsibility of the professionals to earn their sales, not to preserve them by limiting the number of amateur and professional competitors.

I just now read this piece about a photographer who sold his National Geographic cover photo for less than $1200 (though Nat Geo did not have exclusive rights). Your past mentor would probably argue that he should have charged more or not sold it at any price because doing so was taking the business away from photographers who were depending on the sale of their photos to make a living.

Who is your past mentor to know whether your friend would have ever agreed to pay the prices the pros would have quoted? If he had decided that he couldn't justify their prices, he might have ended up making the photos himself anyhow or having you make them at a below-market rate considering your inexperience.

On that note, if you decide you don't want to do the photography, tell your friend to contact me. I'll quote a price and he will have to ship the ceramics to me both ways. My prices will be relatively high because my interest in photography is to either make no money (and have no obligations to anyone) or to make one heck of a lot of money. But I spent a very successful career in sales and I do return phone calls and emails for goodness sake [EDIT: and the cost of doing so at your friend's understandable convenience is going to be built into my pricing]!

[KimC]

Yes, when I stopped wanting to make pictures, I knew the cost was outweighing any benefit. I'm very demanding and critical of myself, so it was not the right combination. Since moving on, my passion has returned, and I'm growing.

However, the one piece that was still etched in my mind was protecting the income of the professionals. In addition to the mentors comments, I have seen some pretty heated discussions on other forums (which I don't participate on, but just pop in on). Mike does a nice job expressing his opinion below; and to my Corp brain, it makes a world of sense!

So, I am going to make that offer Donald, and I appreciate you taking the time to comment.

I'm delighted to read that this person is now a past mentor.

It sounds to me, Kim, that this is about self-belief and confidence. Your former mentor seems to have done an excellent job in undermining your confidence and ensuring that you didn't have a chance to develop your self-belief.

No, maybe you don't have all the skills that a professional might have. Neither do I. But you do have commitment and enthusiasm. And you ain't ever going to get the skills unless you get the experience and the opportunity to learn. You know you can produce good quality images. You've done it on here.

Why not say to your friend that you'd love to try and photograph his pieces and if he likes them, he could use them on his website.

[KimC]

Oh my Mike, your response is so very helpful to my brain -- thank you! This was the piece I couldn't resolve (see my response to Donald).

After reading your response, I thought to myself, when I was in Corp America for 30 years, you had to stay sharp and on your game otherwise you wouldn't survive. No one protected me; I was responsible for myself. And as for the people I mentored over the years, if they were working for me, for those that wanted it, I did everything possible to help them to grow, even if it meant they raised to a higher level (what greater compliment could there be than to see someone you mentor achieve heights higher than yourself). For some reason, I thought there was some different rule in the photography world (yes, I like rules - not a good thing at times) - thanks for slapping me aside the head!

I'm going to make that offer that several on this thread suggested.

Ps. I loved that article - thanks for sharing.

I never have understood your past mentor's point and I never will. It's the responsibility of the professionals to earn their sales, not to preserve them by limiting the number of amateur and professional competitors.

I just now read this piece about a photographer who sold his National Geographic cover photo for less than $1200 (though Nat Geo did not have exclusive rights). Your past mentor would probably argue that he should have charged more or not sold it at any price because doing so was taking the business away from photographers who were depending on the sale of their photos to make a living.

Who is your past mentor to know whether your friend would have ever agreed to pay the prices the pros would have quoted? If he had decided that he couldn't justify their prices, he might have ended up making the photos himself anyhow or having you make them at a below-market rate considering your inexperience.

On that note, if you decide you don't want to do the photography, tell your friend to contact me. I'll quote a price and he will have to ship the ceramics to me both ways. My prices will be relatively high because my interest in photography is to either make no money (and have no obligations to anyone) or to make one heck of a lot of money. But I spent a very successful career in sales and I do return phone calls and emails for goodness sake!

[Mike Buckley]

For some reason, I thought there was some different rule in the photography world

There really isn't even though the photographers who underperform in the purely business side of their profession would have you believe otherwise. The photographers who run really successful businesses "get it" and the others don't. That's why their businesses are unsuccessful in the first place.

[Mike Buckley]

You've really got me going, Kim.

If you decide to charge your friend, consider what the market is before deciding upon your price. Is the market based at least partly on whether you should charge more than your competitors because you return your client's phone calls and emails? Is it based at least partly because relatively few photographers have any experience photogaphing high-gloss materials (or, as an example, should you make your prices instead comparable to the price of photographing an engagement announcement, a senior photo, or a family reunion that every reasonably accomplished wedding photographer knows how to do)?

I remember Terry mentioning a long time ago when he began photographing a particular client's objects that his client couldn't get anyone to photograph them because they were so difficult to photograph.

I recently spoke with a professional who explained that she had earned a certificate as a master of photography conferred upon her by an association of professional photographers. She spent a couple of years completing all of the required photographic tasks and submitting the resulting photos for approval. So, I asked her if she knows how to photograph glass. She doesn't. I then asked her how anyone can be a master of photography who doesn't know how to photograph a material that everyone who lives in a developed country uses every single day. This woman is both talented and very sharp and she completely agreed with my point. By the way, she loved my website of glass photography.

My point about your friend's project: it's a market just like any business market. There is nothing special about the business aspects of photography despite what the underperforming photographers would have you believe. If you know how to photograph a certain type of subject that your competitors don't know how to photograph, consider charging a lot more than they charge. That's because, ironically, you have limited competition, which of course means that your client has limited options.

[Rider in the Sky]

So, here's my question, I was reluctant to help ..................................I would appreciate to hear other views on this type of issue.

I guess most of us here at one time or another, went through a similar situation. There were many, many times I too was reluctant , apprehensive , didn't want to disappoint. Will I make it? Not?
I learned, the only way I will know is to "Just do it".
[ Thanks Michael J. ]

Easier said than done? Yes, but life is short.

Just me................. Right Griddi !

[KimC]

Thanks to everyone who commented... I offered photographing a couple of pieces and then deciding from there if we do more. He was an art director and creative director in a prior life, so my learning could be two-fold. Waiting to hear if he wants to accept the offer. However the chips fall, I'm glad I made the offer.

[DanK]

Thanks to everyone who commented... I offered photographing a couple of pieces and then deciding from there if we do more. He was an art director and creative director in a prior life, so my learning could be two-fold. Waiting to hear if he wants to accept the offer. However the chips fall, I'm glad I made the offer.

Glad you made this choice. It's a very different situation from, say, a wedding, where there aren't any do-overs. If he doesn't like the photos, he can always get someone else to try again, and you will have learned from trying.

[Loose Canon]

Atta Girl Kim! I hope this guy accepts your offer.

And when he does just jump right into the Big Middle of it and don’t look back!

My money is on you because I know you will bring this home in your usual awesome style and with your usual awesome grace.

I’m looking forward to you kicking some high-gloss ceramic butt!

(We'll save the "mentor" [and I use that term most diplomatically here] kicking for later!)