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Thread: ND filters

  1. #1
    aee's Avatar
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    ND filters

    Could any one give me any information on how to pick what number nd filter to use. I would like to take long exposure photos of running water

  2. #2

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    Re: ND filters

    aee welcome to CIC, it would be helpful if you went back into setting and updated it by adding your name much easier than referring to you as aee, and also where in general you live as it really helps in telling you where to go (to find things). Now getting into the use of filters can get very expensive, the screw in filters are nice to start off with to see if that is the way you want to go. I would look at a 3-stop filter to start, see what it the largest lens thread you have say it is a 77mm then buy the filter for that size and then a set-down ring for the next largest. These rings save you money by letting you use the same filter on other lens.
    adding a link to a filter supplier, I use them all the time and the ladies there will be able to walk you through any questions that you have.
    http://www.2filter.com/
    Give them a call Monday.

    Cheers: Allan

  3. #3
    aee's Avatar
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    Re: ND filters

    Thanks. Will do what you ask.

  4. #4
    Moderator Dave Humphries's Avatar
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    Re: ND filters

    Quote Originally Posted by aee View Post
    Could any one give me any information on how to pick what number nd filter to use. I would like to take long exposure photos of running water
    Hi Awstin,

    Here's how I might try to work that out.

    Research a few shots that have the degree of smooth flowing water you'd like, and find out what shutter speed was used, especially helpful would be if you could fnd shots of the precise fountain/waterfall/stream you are interested in shooting.

    You'll obviously want to use the lowest ISO your camera can shoot at; typically 100 ISO.
    You'll probably decide to use a fairly narrow aperture, both for Depth of Field and because it will slow down the shutter speed, say f/16.

    Then it is just a case of using the exposure triangle along with the amount of light on the day to work out the required difference (in stops), between the shutter speed the camera wants to use and that required to obtain the smooth water effect - that will be the answer.

    Without knowing whether your target water is a sunlit fountain, or a waterfall deep under a welsh(?) forest canopy, makes it hard to guess. It could be very few, might get away with a CPL, which loses 2 stops, or you may need something stronger.

    You might find it helpful to view some shots one of our members has taken, Matt, username Rebel (I think) and see what shutter speeds he's used.

    If I can find a link to a thread or two of his, I'll return to this post and add them.

    Welcome to the CiC forums from ... Dave

  5. #5
    aee's Avatar
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    Re: ND filters

    We have rivers and water falls near us so they are the subject. I only have a bridge camera and a lot to learn. As we live on an Island I might try pictures of the sea also

  6. #6
    Moderator Dave Humphries's Avatar
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    Re: ND filters

    Hi again Awstin,

    OK, apart from a limited aperture range, the bridge camera should be OK.

    I found some waterfall threads by Matt:
    Sgwd Isaf Clun-gwyn (Fall of the White Meadow)
    Sgwd y Pannwr (Fall of the Fuller)
    Waterfall Selfie

    The exposure times where between one quarter and 2.5 seconds, and I don't think Matt needed an ND filter to take them, but you might want to ask him.

    Cheers, Dave

  7. #7
    aee's Avatar
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    Re: ND filters

    Been on the links very good pictures. Something for me to aim for.
    Thanks
    Awstin

  8. #8
    Moderator Manfred M's Avatar
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    Re: ND filters

    Hi Awstin - You've received some very good suggestions so far.

    Your question is a hard one to answer as the shooting conditions will often dictate your approach. If you shoot in shaded areas when there is little light, you can achieve the blurred effect with no filters at all, but if you are shooting in bright light conditions and want to really slow things down with a super long exposure, a 10-stop filter (or more) might be needed.

    My first question would concern your camera. Does it even have a way of mounting filters in front of the lens? If you can, that's a good first step, otherwise you are going to face a bit of a challenge.

    The second question would be regarding your equipment capabilities - a good sturdy tripod is a must, a remote control so that you can shoot without moving the camera is something that in nice to have and having a camera that lets you do this kind of work is critical.

    Some cameras, for instance, will not allow exposures longer than say 30 seconds. If your camera doesn't have the capability to handle this type of photography, you might have to be extremely clever in how you get around the equipment limitations and you might find that there are insurmountable issues. On the flip side, your camera may have these capabilities and no problem.

  9. #9

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    Re: ND filters

    Those who've already answered know way more about techniques than I do. However when I first started playing with filters on a bridge camera, I bought a variable ND filter. It does a good job without distortion or flare right up to almost its darkest setiing. I bought it to experiment with, thinking that later I'd buy the fixed ones I thought would be most useful, but I'm still using that variable one because it's good enough for everything I need it for.
    Last edited by rachel; 4th October 2015 at 09:05 AM.

  10. #10
    Tringa's Avatar
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    Re: ND filters

    Manfred got to my thoughts before me, Awstin.

    Have a look to see if your camera has a filter thread on the lens. If it does the manual should tell you the size of the thread.

    However, even if there is a thread care is needed. On bridge cameras (or rather all those I have seen) the lens is made up of two parts. A fixed outer part and an inner part that extends as the lens is zoomed.

    If a filter is fitted to the outer part of the lens then zooming the lens will push the extending part into the filter, which could damage or break the filter. Therefore this is not an option

    If the inner, extending, part of the lens has a thread then a filter can be fitted to it and the above problem will not occur. However, there is potentially another, more serious, problem.

    When bridge cameras are switched off the lens retracts and therefore the inner part, with the filter fitted, will be retracted into the camera. The space between the fixed and moving parts of the lens is lightly to be very small and if the outer diameter of the filter is fractionally larger than the diameter of the lens the retractable part of the lens might become jammed, making the camera unusable.

    I'm sure there will be filters that will not cause the above problem. It would be work checking with the camera maker or online to see if anyone else has your camera.

    Good luck

    Dave

    When I used a bridge

  11. #11
    Moderator Dave Humphries's Avatar
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    Re: ND filters

    Hi Awstin,

    Sorry, me again

    I shot 'seriously' with a bridge camera for two years (2007-2009), plus some since then
    It would be useful to know what make/model camera you have?

    Your bridge camera probably doesn't have a filter thread, but as Manfred says, you may not need one for shooting falls, although the sea/beach might be another matter, unless in twilight.

    You probably won't need more that 30 seconds for falls, but may for really smoothing a sea surface.

    Also, in lieu of a remote shutter release; you can improvise by using the self-timer feature, so (with camera on tripod, everything on manual as already described) set it to a delay of 2, 5 or 10 seconds, trip the shutter, listen to the beeps until the shutter opens and closes again.

    Good luck and do show us your first tries, so we can assist you honing good technique.

    Cheers, Dave

  12. #12

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    Re: ND filters

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Humphries View Post
    Your bridge camera probably doesn't have a filter thread,
    I didn't realise most bridge cameras didn't have this!

    Mine does and I've not had the sort of problems outlined above - I bought the right size filter and thought no more of it.

    FWIW my bridge camera shows the filter size on the front of the lens, with all the other info about the lens.
    If you're not sure, measure its diameter - they come in standard sizes.

  13. #13
    aee's Avatar
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    Awstin

    Re: ND filters

    My camera is a Sony HX300. 30sec longest exposure time and I can fit a lens on it as I have a uv on it now

  14. #14
    Moderator Dave Humphries's Avatar
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    Re: ND filters

    Quote Originally Posted by aee View Post
    My camera is a Sony HX300. 30sec longest exposure time and I can fit a lens on it as I have a uv on it now
    That's fairly capable (according to a review I just looked at), apart from aperture, with only two settings; wide open (which varies between f/2.8, if W/A to f/6.3, if Super Telephoto), plus f/8.

    Good that it does take a filter though and it looks, from pictures I have seen, that concerns over lens retraction won't apply.

    See how you get on without a filter, or failing that, just get say, something (fixed) in range of 2 - 3 stops.

    The Vari-ND filters (and fixed ND filters in the range of 8 - 10 stops) are very expensive for high quality.
    Low quality ones tend to come with issues; typically a colour cast that's difficult-impossible to completely correct when set to stop most light. At least, that's the experiences we've had related (and seen) here previously, I have no personal experience with using one.

    Hope that helps, Dave

  15. #15
    Tringa's Avatar
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    Re: ND filters

    As you have already used a filter with your camera then my concerns/warnings above do not apply. I do not have an ND filter so cannot suggest which strength is best, but have a look at this place - http://srb-photographic.co.uk/ . I have bought a few things from them and their prices are good without, IMO, compromising on quality.

    Dave

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