Wedding Anniversary Trip to Indiana..for C&C

[IzzieK]

Binnur I know I cannot get as good as you yet but I will try as I like your and some others processing because they are crisps. I think it has something to do with my shots yet as this is the first time I tried out this lens. I am still practicing here near home and when I do get more practice, then I can process more properly...I have been doing my pp in this laptop for a good while so it is hit and miss too. Yesterday I decided to go upstairs and fix my desktop so by this morning when I wake up I can use that big thing in my den.

Grain in #1 is one of the problematic shots because I did this on my D90 and cannot zoom enough later in pp. I forgot about that camera use when doing my pp and did not zoom close enough in ACR to see the grains and fixed it...I went straight to Viveza instead then CEF then corrected my black and white points. I did not sharpen either after resizing...I reckon most of the shots even the next day with my FF camera are all not satisfactory because all of the shots from the tours were in glass windows. And yes, I do not just admit the presets either, I tried to change the slides most of the time and fiddle a lot so I kept losing my recipes. I should start to collect some again...I like tweaking the options instead of just going to the selections already there...I'll get it right -- one day. Thank you for the encouragements...I appreciate your comments and critiques.

Congratulations on your anniversary Isabel

Nice set of images. Compositions all look good. My best is #5 with the dramatic clouds and IMO it would make a good BnW image too. I'm not very fond of the grain in #1 because I usually like grain in BnW images and I would lift the very dark shadows a bit if possible as my eyes immediately go on them when I look at the image. I like the colors and contrasts in the other images.The sharpening seems a bit too much on the foliage in #2. When I sharpen my images if the foliage looks too crisp I use a mask on the layer and I erase about %50(or sometimes more) of the sharpening with a soft brush on the crisp areas.

Thanks for liking my edits. I don't know how you edit your images, but If you are using some presets I would suggest that you shouldn't as they might make you lazy about editing. Trying different sliders, tweaking some filter effects,getting to know and using different tools broaden your vision while editing.Watching a lot of images and following some artists' work on the internet might also help you to have a vision

[IzzieK]

Actually I was curious about specs of the lens......I admit it....I suffer from NAS

In regards to the Nikon D750....I love mine. Darn thing is lighter than my D90 and makes pretty pictures when I push the little button on the top.

I've only seen a D750 in a shop when I was making a choice between the D810 and D750. So I cannot compare to the my D90. The D90 is my all-around carry camera...always have it in my small cooler bag inside my bigger purse...I love that little thing...it has been my workhorse for quite sometime...so I retrieve it from its hole from my shelves where it took resident for almost a year...

[Chrisclick]

.....So where did you take her to celebrate...??

The 26th of October, Izzie. I'm yet to decide. It's easy for me to remember that you have connections in Oz - every time I try to type your name, my spell-checker replaces it with "Ozzie"!!!!

[John 2]

Missed these Izzie. Belated congratulations. It's a nice set of images particularly since a couple of them are virtually against the light and you have never the less got the exposure right. Perspective control in PS is in Edit /Transform where you will find a whole bunch of correction tools that become more useful the more you use wide angle lenses. Remember to select the whole image first though. It takes a little time to understand how you can use each one but it becomes obvious if you have a play with them.

[IzzieK]

The 26th of October, Izzie. I'm yet to decide. It's easy for me to remember that you have connections in Oz - every time I try to type your name, my spell-checker replaces it with "Ozzie"!!!!

Ossie Ostrich (full name: Oswald Q Ostrich), remember him? with Darryl Somers in Hey! Hey! It's Saturday? Oh! Your anniversary is still coming in October...Okeedokee....why not ask your wife where she wanted to go instead, then take your camera...

[IzzieK]

John, I had learned a lot from you and John and Grahame and all the rest of the members here at CiC...I took notes. As for the perspective tool, what I found yesterday wasn't what I was looking for and the Edit/Transform tool is exactly what I used to used but couldn't find it. Thanks for the tip...I had used it for my Dairy Cows Tour which I will upload shortly after this response...Thanks again for commenting and the congratulations...and the critique of course. I've learned and remember so many of them I don't usually use but now with the UWA, I will have to dig this tool up over and over again knowing I can do it easily...

Missed these Izzie. Belated congratulations. It's a nice set of images particularly since a couple of them are virtually against the light and you have never the less got the exposure right. Perspective control in PS is in Edit /Transform where you will find a whole bunch of correction tools that become more useful the more you use wide angle lenses. Remember to select the whole image first though. It takes a little time to understand how you can use each one but it becomes obvious if you have a play with them.

[Dave Humphries]

Hi Izzie,

I'm late to this thread, but congratulate yourself and Bill on your anniversary - ok, pleasantries are over, time to get nasty
(because I know you appreciate it really)

I hope the fix on the Desktop machine in your den (woman cave?) works because the black and white points on many of these are all over the place with blown whites and crushed blacks in all bar the B&W one. That laptop is doing your editing no favours


What I learnt with my UWA is the importance of keeping the camera as level as possible during capture, using a hot shoe level to aid this and if necessary, shooting at a wider angle than the composition requires, then cropping any boring foreground off in PP (to avoid tilting camera up). Note though, that it is also important to keep the camera left/right level too, to avoid issues requiring a rotation in PP, which complicates any remaining perspective corrections necessary.

Talking of PP 'perspective' corrections, I find a good method is to:
First Ensure lens profile corrections are on, dealing with any barrel distortion, etc.
Second Ensure Chromatic Aberration correction is on to deal with CA, adjust amount and colours if necessary
Third Check and correct the left/right leveling, by choosing a vertical edge that will be in the centre of frame after cropping (although you should do this before cropping), overlay the grid to assist
Fourth Use whatever means works for you* to correct any converging verticals to an extent that makes the image seem natural, this won't always mean a 'complete' correction, especially if the shot is unavoidably looking up, sometimes better to leave a little, use grid overlay to assist
Fifth Crop to the final composition
Sixth Recheck perspective, if not acceptable, undo crop and revisit the necessary adjustment to fix and continue from that step in process to the end again.

* I haven't done enough lately to advise accurately which way is best - in the past, sometimes I apply a correction and it just works, others times; it fixes the verticals, but leaves the structure lacking its full height (squashing any round windows), so then the height needs stretching to compensate, a recent example here is in Neville thread: Converging verticals - To see, or not to see - clearly I'm doing something wrong/different when the latter happens. I must get out and shoot/PP more myself, although my capture technique largely avoids the need for correction whenever possible.

The main thing, to avoid driving yourself nuts, is to do things in a sensible order, here's why I say that:
If there is uncorrected rotation in the shot, you'll perhaps balance the converging verticals on left and right edges of the frame, but, especially after you've cropped, it will still look wrong.
If there is uncorrected barrel distortion and you're checking verticals that only exist adjacent to frame edge in the top or bottom half of picture, that doesn't help.

Hope that helps, Dave

[IzzieK]

Dave...thank you for your comments. First of all, I am in agreement with you about my laptop...

For a good start, I had not touched my perspective tool for a good while. I only discovered it again recently when John (2) mentioned where to get it in CS6. CS6 also has the Perspective Crop tool which I have not yet discovered how to use and I am more used to the Transform tool in the Edit section of Photoshop. So these first shots are the result of no-perspective corrections in any of them, plus the fact that my UWA is a new tool in my lens acquisition and I did not know what to expect with it. If you will look closely it was connected to my D90 which do not have enough pixel reach. I did not use any tripod nor monopod when I shot this, one of those spontaneous things I did first up when we reached the car park. You should have seen the look of one "photographer" in the restaurant when he saw I was using a D90...what the heck! I enjoyed dinner with Bill anyway...while he stares at his food....must be my skin color or something and not even my camera... Man! He has a has a big chip on his shoulder....

Hi Izzie,

I'm late to this thread, but congratulate yourself and Bill on your anniversary - ok, pleasantries are over, time to get nasty
(because I know you appreciate it really)

I hope the fix on the Desktop machine in your den (woman cave?) works because the black and white points on many of these are all over the place with blown whites and crushed blacks in all bar the B&W one. That laptop is doing your editing no favours


What I learnt with my UWA is the importance of keeping the camera as level as possible during capture, using a hot shoe level to aid this and if necessary, shooting at a wider angle than the composition requires, then cropping any boring foreground off in PP (to avoid tilting camera up). Note though, that it is also important to keep the camera left/right level too, to avoid issues requiring a rotation in PP, which complicates any remaining perspective corrections necessary.

Talking of PP 'perspective' corrections, I find a good method is to:
First Ensure lens profile corrections are on, dealing with any barrel distortion, etc.

I did turned on the camera profile on ACR...

Second Ensure Chromatic Aberration correction is on to deal with CA, adjust amount and colours if necessary

I would have thought ACR will do that for me...I wasn't up to it to tell you the truth as I wouldn't recognize that with my first shots of this new lens...I will get it one of these days...

Third Check and correct the left/right leveling, by choosing a vertical edge that will be in the centre of frame after cropping (although you should do this before cropping), overlay the grid to assist

I did try the Grid Check on the Cow trip one...

Fourth Use whatever means works for you* to correct any converging verticals to an extent that makes the image seem natural, this won't always mean a 'complete' correction, especially if the shot is unavoidably looking up, sometimes better to leave a little, use grid overlay to assist
Fifth Crop to the final composition

Goodness knows I was trying...but I failed -- I had no idea where my perspective tool was at the time...now that I do, I will use it from now with this lens .... btw I love the lens very much..

Sixth Recheck perspective, if not acceptable, undo crop and revisit the necessary adjustment to fix and continue from that step in process to the end again.

* I haven't done enough lately to advise accurately which way is best - in the past, sometimes I apply a correction and it just works, others times; it fixes the verticals, but leaves the structure lacking its full height (squashing any round windows), so then the height needs stretching to compensate, a recent example here is in Neville thread: Converging verticals - To see, or not to see - clearly I'm doing something wrong/different when the latter happens. I must get out and shoot/PP more myself, although my capture technique largely avoids the need for correction whenever possible.

The main thing, to avoid driving yourself nuts, is to do things in a sensible order, here's why I say that:
If there is uncorrected rotation in the shot, you'll perhaps balance the converging verticals on left and right edges of the frame, but, especially after you've cropped, it will still look wrong.
If there is uncorrected barrel distortion and you're checking verticals that only exist adjacent to frame edge in the top or bottom half of picture, that doesn't help.

Hope that helps, Dave

Yes...this all helps especially now that I know where my perspective tool is located and then I can apply the lens correction later on.

P.S... I am confused. This is not exactly what I read offline a while ago...There was something about white point/black point too, what happened to that? Anyway...because of my inability to correct my perspective tool, my work flow for this first submission of our tour was to translate from NEF to PSD then, Viveza 2, then either use Silver Efex or Color Efex to hide some of my mistakes...then I did a white/black point correction. I did more workflow for the Dairy Cow Tour than this one though...

Thank you so much for your comments and critiques. I do appreciate it very much learning so much from you. And I like it when you are nastier...

[Dave Humphries]

I would have thought ACR will do that for me.

Can't rely on it, depends what preference has been saved, best to check the tick is in the box (in ACR)

P.S... I am confused. This is not exactly what I read offline a while ago...There was something about white point/black point too, what happened to that?

I was limiting myself to just the steps that impact perspective adjustments.


However, the one thing you keep mentioning, perhaps just because it is new to you, are the perspective correction tools in PS.

One of the main points I wanted to get across was that ideally you need to take as much care as possible when shooting to reduce the need to use the tools in PP at all.

And I like it when you are nastier.

Thought so

[Loose Canon]

Great post(s) Dave. I’ll toss a couple of ideas into the mix for Miss Izz to consider.

ok, pleasantries are over, time to get nasty
(because I know you appreciate it really)

I hope the fix on the Desktop machine in your den (woman cave?) works because the black and white points on many of these are all over the place with blown whites and crushed blacks in all bar the B&W one. That laptop is doing your editing no favours

What I learnt with my UWA is the importance of keeping the camera as level as possible during capture, using a hot shoe level to aid this and if necessary, shooting at a wider angle than the composition requires, then cropping any boring foreground off in PP (to avoid tilting camera up). Note though, that it is also important to keep the camera left/right level too, to avoid issues requiring a rotation in PP, which complicates any remaining perspective corrections necessary.

Talking of PP 'perspective' corrections, I find a good method is to:
First Ensure lens profile corrections are on, dealing with any barrel distortion, etc.
Second Ensure Chromatic Aberration correction is on to deal with CA, adjust amount and colours if necessary
Third Check and correct the left/right leveling, by choosing a vertical edge that will be in the centre of frame after cropping (although you should do this before cropping), overlay the grid to assist
Fourth Use whatever means works for you* to correct any converging verticals to an extent that makes the image seem natural, this won't always mean a 'complete' correction, especially if the shot is unavoidably looking up, sometimes better to leave a little, use grid overlay to assist
Fifth Crop to the final composition
Sixth Recheck perspective, if not acceptable, undo crop and revisit the necessary adjustment to fix and continue from that step in process to the end again.

* I haven't done enough lately to advise accurately which way is best - in the past, sometimes I apply a correction and it just works, others times; it fixes the verticals, but leaves the structure lacking its full height (squashing any round windows), so then the height needs stretching to compensate, a recent example here is in Neville thread: Converging verticals - To see, or not to see - clearly I'm doing something wrong/different when the latter happens. I must get out and shoot/PP more myself, although my capture technique largely avoids the need for correction whenever possible.

The main thing, to avoid driving yourself nuts, is to do things in a sensible order, here's why I say that:
If there is uncorrected rotation in the shot, you'll perhaps balance the converging verticals on left and right edges of the frame, but, especially after you've cropped, it will still look wrong.
If there is uncorrected barrel distortion and you're checking verticals that only exist adjacent to frame edge in the top or bottom half of picture, that doesn't help.

The first three are on the $$$ and need to be done in the order Dave laid out. These are essential because if not done in this order further correction won’t be accurate. Pincushion and barrel distortion, for example, will cause your lines to appear curved either inwards or outwards and, unless corrected first, you will never get them accurately corrected for either this or perspective later in the workflow. So this first and then rotation correction before perspective correction (as per Nasty Dave’s advice! ). So I’ll start there with a couple of suggestions to add to Dave’s.

When in ACR I suggest you consider trying any perspective correction using the automatic tools first. They usually do a really good job of it and its quick. The automatic and manual correction tools are found in ACR under the lens correction button. When you get there, the automatic tools are in the panel labeled “Upright”. The sliders below that are the manual tools. If the automatic tools don’t do it for you there are the sliders for manual tools. Have the Show Grid box in the bottom left of the panel ticked. The slider next to it adjusts the grid size.

ACR Panel:


If you are in Photoshop CC, these same basic manual tools are available under Filter>Lens Correction and Filter>Camera Raw Filter. Camera Raw Filter will take you back to ACR’s tools. Very cool feature! In your PS6 Camera Raw Filter is not available.

In Lens Corrections in Photoshop you can adjust vertical, horizontal, and rotation all in one place manually. Under the first tab at the top labeled “Auto Correction”. if you have “Auto Scale Image” ticked it will scale the image so you won’t have to crop later saving you another step.

Photoshop Panel:


Some “gotchas”? No matter what you use you have to make sure you only do lens distortion corrections once and only once. If you do it more than once you will be correcting an already corrected shot and will take it back to incorrect.

For example don’t correct lens distortions in ACR in your RAW conversion and then go to Photoshop and do it again. If you correct lens distortions in ACR and go into “Lens Correction” in Photoshop make sure all auto corrections are turned off here. Under the tab “Auto Correction’ you will see options for Geometric Distortion, Chromatic Abberation and Vignette. These are all lens corrections.

Under the tab “Custom” are the manual perspective tools. So it is important to realize the difference in lens correction and perspective correction.

Also the most important thing to remember from me Izzy?

Happy Anniversary!

[NorthernFocus]

Happy anniversary, Izzie. You are a true photographer. Clicking away during your anniversary dinner

Since I don't do much of this sort of photography I can't offer much in the way of C/C. But I like no.3 the best.

[Dave Humphries]

Thanks for the valuable follow up Terry.

You have reminded me that the last shot I two I corrected, I did use the new panel in ACR that comes with PS CC.

[IzzieK]

....However, the one thing you keep mentioning, perhaps just because it is new to you, are the perspective correction tools in PS.

One of the main points I wanted to get across was that ideally you need to take as much care as possible when shooting to reduce the need to use the tools in PP at all.

No, not new...just forgotten. What is new to me is the CS6 Perspective Crop Tool which is different from the past tool I used to use which is the transform tool. I still have that one here in CS6 and I am more used to it but I can't find it earlier.

As to less PP. I will get there. I need to experiment some more...Thanks again for the added info. It is a good learning experience.

[IzzieK]

Dear Terry...thank you for the detailed explanation here. I saw this post late last night so it will have to wait until the morning when it is a little bit brighter for me to work on these images' correction as you and Dave have been drumming in my head (understanding) for two days. I went to bed thinking about this so I think I am getting it but not yet until I get working on the correction. This is post is an eyeopener for sure and just scratching the surface. I am very glad you two are ganging up on me and putting me in the right path...I will go through these instructions again in the morning and follow it to the letter. I know how I can open it again in ACR and go from there. I will try to save two files so I can also work on these inside Photoshop itself and compare the result.

I do not have CC...I only work on CS6 so far. Thank you and Dave for added instructions and very detailed too. I truly appreciate it very much. I will upload some corrections for you to critique once more...Hope you won't give up on me yet..

[IzzieK]

Happy anniversary, Izzie. You are a true photographer. Clicking away during your anniversary dinner

Since I don't do much of this sort of photography I can't offer much in the way of C/C. But I like no.3 the best.

Thanks Dan...I did not really click away while having dinner. Only when we got out of the car to go to the restaurant. While he was at the desk, I caught one more click and that was it!

Well, I cannot do your sort of photography either because you shoot in the wilds. I've become "townsfolk" for a long time now...so I stick close to home if I can...

Thank you for passing by my post and commenting...your comments are appreciated...

[Rob Ekins]

Izzie,
Not too bad a shot for handheld and @1/30 actually, well done!

Terry and Dave have covered the perspective stuff, my suggestion for improvement would be to desaturate the reds so that the back wall feels less over powering and the skin tones on the punters faces are a touch more accurate, maybe a smidge of blue from the areas around the windows could go as well.

I liked the two people standing in the BG, my eye went there straight away, they may or may not we waiters but it felt like it, which is a good thing in a shot like this..

Again well done for a hand held shot.

[IzzieK]

That was a one-shot deal, Rob...I agree I overdid the sliders in Nik for this efforts because I was trying for more saturation but instead it was the vibrance that has been overdone...thank you for passing by. It is nice to be able for all of you to criticize my shots as this is where I really shine in the background--editing. One of these days, when I get used to this new lens, I will have less editing and more of the compositions. This first batch were knee-jerk shots. I will try to do better today with some more of those almost same sceneries but of horses...lots of them.

Thank you so much for the comments and critiques. I really do appreciate it very much. It is a good learning experience. One day I would like to pick up a new lens and not even think anything about it but use it and well too...I am getting there...

Izzie,
Not too bad a shot for handheld and @1/30 actually, well done!

Terry and Dave have covered the perspective stuff, my suggestion for improvement would be to desaturate the reds so that the back wall feels less over powering and the skin tones on the punters faces are a touch more accurate, maybe a smidge of blue from the areas around the windows could go as well.

I liked the two people standing in the BG, my eye went there straight away, they may or may not we waiters but it felt like it, which is a good thing in a shot like this..

Again well done for a hand held shot.

[Rob Ekins]

Izzie,
Forgive me if I missed it, what is the new lens?

[Dave Humphries]

~ This first batch were knee-jerk shots. ~

Thank you so much for the comments and critiques. I really do appreciate it very much. It is a good learning experience.

We all do this Izzie,

The benefit of doing it 'in public' is that everyone; yourself and us, learn so much quicker.

One day I would like to pick up a new lens and not even think anything about it, but use it, and well too...

By the time you are buying second lenses for focal lengths you've already shot with, this may be possible, but I wouldn't be surprised (and you should NOT feel dissatisfied) to find even then, there are little differences which may catch you out; extra weight (if faster lens), controls working in opposite directions to what you're used to (if buying non-Nikon), etc. That said, it is a good aim to have.

[Dave Humphries]

Izzie,
Forgive me if I missed it, what is the new lens?

The UWA - Nikon 12-24 mm f/4.5-5.6, I believe Rob. (from EXIF)

Used on both D90 (DX) abd D810 (FF).

Replied as Izzie off line (hope you don't mind)