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Thread: What shall I do? Canon (50D, 7D vs Nikon D90)?

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    New Member greyblk's Avatar
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    What shall I do? Canon (50D, 7D vs Nikon D90)?

    Hello Guys & Gals,

    I have been having sleepless night as I search for the right DSLR.

    I have been granted the opportunity of a $2000 budget. As my large family has decided to fund my camera. As i like to go forth with a photography business/studio/gigs, etc. I will be shooting portraits, nightlife, landscapes, weddings, fashion shows, bugs for god sakes... I want a camera with speed to catch movement, great IQ, *SHARPNESS, focus, facial images, hardware & software capability with a MAC, lenses say 70-300,...

    But what shall a gal choose? HELP PLEASE...

    Open to any and all information

    Thanks in advance...
    Last edited by Dave Humphries; 4th May 2010 at 06:28 AM.

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    Moderator Dave Humphries's Avatar
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    Re: What shall I do? Canon (50D, 7D vs Nikon D90)?

    Hi again Shelly,

    Quick reply now, more later if other's don't mention something I intend to.

    1) Whatever you get, the results will very largely depend on how good a photographer you are

    2) As you probably know, the lenses are going to have the greatest effect on image quality (excluding noise which is down to the camera body) and good 'glass' can cost $2000 on its own

    3) If you're used to Canon, Nikon will feel backwards; most controls and indicators work the opposite way and while (in Nikon) some can be reversed in menus, zoom in/out on lens barrel cannot. But you'll soon get used to it, so not a good reason to go Canon for this alone.

    4) Given that good glass costs money, if your T1i owning friend has any lens beyond the kit lens, you may want to borrow it in future (friend willing).

    5) Your choice of bodies seems sensible to me (well, for Nikon anyway)

    6) There's a lot more to earning a living by photography than taking pictures - PP (what software do you have?) and of course, running a business

    Must dash,

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    arith's Avatar
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    Re: What shall I do? Canon (50D, 7D vs Nikon D90)?

    What is the diffraction limit of a 50D? I used a diffraction calculator in the tutorials and it looks like f8 when choosing CoC of 2 pixels. Surely this will affect DOF and while it is not much different to my 10D it is going in the wrong direction.

    http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tut...hotography.htm

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    Re: What shall I do? Canon (50D, 7D vs Nikon D90)?

    Quote Originally Posted by greyblk View Post
    Hello Guys & Gals,

    I have been having sleepless night as I search for the right DSLR.
    Hi Shelly,

    The first thing to understand is that most ("all") cameras at a given price point have pretty much the same feature set - so in most cases there's no such thing as "the wrong" choice.

    The next thing you need to understand is if you want to shoot weddings and other events at a professional level then (a) you've got a steep learning curve ahead of you, and (b) you'll need to add at least 1 zero to your budget, although it will take closer to a couple to cover most of the bases (lens selection, backup body, lighting equipment, reflectors, diffusers, processing software and equipment, legal fees, training materials, and much much more).

    By "speed to catch movement" if your referring to a camera's ability to freeze motion then that's purely a function of shutter speed, not camera brand. If your referring to the camera's ability to focus quickly and take the shot then you'll need something like a Canon 1D4 for Nikon D3x. IQ & sharpness are mostly functions of lens selection - and shooting / post-processing technique. Hardware & software capability doesn't really enter into it as at a professional level you'll be reading your cards via a card reader.

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    Re: What shall I do? Canon (50D, 7D vs Nikon D90)?

    Quote Originally Posted by arith View Post
    What is the diffraction limit of a 50D? I used a diffraction calculator in the tutorials and it looks like f8 when choosing CoC of 2 pixels. Surely this will affect DOF and while it is not much different to my 10D it is going in the wrong direction.
    Hi Steve,

    Diffraction is a bit like noise ... it's really only an issue when you're pixel peeping at 100% ... in final prints it's just not a real-world issue, in my opinion (I shoot at F22 / F32 all the time).

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    Re: What shall I do? Canon (50D, 7D vs Nikon D90)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Colin Southern View Post
    Hi Steve,

    Diffraction is a bit like noise ... it's really only an issue when you're pixel peeping at 100% ... in final prints it's just not a real-world issue, in my opinion (I shoot at F22 / F32 all the time).
    if i shoot at f22/f32, im bothered because the dust at my sensor will appear. i tried it cleaned with a blower but to no avail the dust is still there.
    i dont know and i'm afraid in doing the cleaning by myself.
    if shoot at f/10 and f/13, dust is not visible. shall i lived with it at f/13?
    im using 50d.

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    Re: What shall I do? Canon (50D, 7D vs Nikon D90)?

    Just wondering as a wedding photographer wouldn't you want a backup camera?

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    Re: What shall I do? Canon (50D, 7D vs Nikon D90)?

    Quote Originally Posted by belong View Post
    if i shoot at f22/f32, im bothered because the dust at my sensor will appear. i tried it cleaned with a blower but to no avail the dust is still there.
    i dont know and i'm afraid in doing the cleaning by myself.
    if shoot at f/10 and f/13, dust is not visible. shall i lived with it at f/13?
    im using 50d.
    Unfortunately, sensor dust is a fact of life; I've got a couple of hundred spots on mine right now. You have a few options ...

    - Clone them out (sounds laborious, but if you shoot 100 frames and then loving process just the best one like me, then it isn't as big a job as it sounds.

    - Have the sensor cleaned professionally - yes, it does cost, but if you only have it done once or twice a year then it's not too bad

    - Learn how to do it yourself. Products like the Arctic Butterfly can do a pretty good job (if you follow the instructions). Wet cleaning isn't too bad either once you've done it a few times.

    The thing to remember is that you're not actually cleaning the sensor - you're cleaning the glass filter in front of it, which is actually a lot tougher than it looks.

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    Re: What shall I do? Canon (50D, 7D vs Nikon D90)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowman View Post
    Just wondering as a wedding photographer wouldn't you want a backup camera?
    Wedding photography has something in common with space flight and filing tax returns ... "Failure is NOT an option". In one-off events like weddings, the B & G are paying for great results - not excuses - so backup bodies (preferably more than 1) - backup lenses - backup flashes - backup media are just the beginning. Many think that wedding photography is an easy way to earn a few extra bucks ... they are wrong. I can't think of ANY area of photography where the photographer has to be so much on top of their game; thinking on their feet - dodging curve-balls - and keeping one step ahead of everyone else. Many jump in the deep end; many drown.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=js7Rz...layer_embedded

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    New Member greyblk's Avatar
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    Re: What shall I do? Canon (50D, 7D vs Nikon D90)?

    Thanks you for the responses...

    As per weddings, I'm starting so thats really not the first things i'll be doing.. As of now, I am doing portraits (family, single, etc) So i would like a body that can provide me with some longevity. And purchase lenses along the way.

    if i choose 50D its crop factor, which lens could i achieve a full frame.

    I still on consider myself an serious amatuer.

    Thanks Colin.
    Last edited by greyblk; 4th May 2010 at 02:24 PM.

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    New Member greyblk's Avatar
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    Re: What shall I do? Canon (50D, 7D vs Nikon D90)?

    Hey Dave,

    Your right... I am used to Canon... I have 3 Canon Point & Shoot. So i am very comfortable... I took a Photography class last semester and classmate had a D90... OMG such great shots, he used a 35mm F1.8DX and 18-200mm F3.5-5.6 VRDX.... What would be the Canon comparison? So confused as to what to get.

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    Re: What shall I do? Canon (50D, 7D vs Nikon D90)?

    Quote Originally Posted by greyblk View Post
    I took a Photography class last semester and classmate had a D90... OMG such great shots, he used a 35mm F1.8DX and 18-200mm F3.5-5.6 VRDX
    Shelly,

    It's not about the camera. I could take a shot with my top of the line Canon - a bottom of the line Canon - a middle of the range Nikon ... and you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. Primarily it's about understanding and applying the principles; using the right combination of lens, shutterspeed, aperture & ISO to control your exposure - control your movement - control your depth of field - control your noise levels. It's about composition - it's about understanding lighting - it's about controlling the light. From an image quality point of view, it's really not about the camera.

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    New Member greyblk's Avatar
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    Re: What shall I do? Canon (50D, 7D vs Nikon D90)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Colin Southern View Post
    Shelly,

    It's not about the camera. I could take a shot with my top of the line Canon - a bottom of the line Canon - a middle of the range Nikon.
    Thats true... What camera do you have? What do you mostly shoot?

    What lens do u suggest for portraits?
    Last edited by Dave Humphries; 4th May 2010 at 08:07 PM.

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    Re: What shall I do? Canon (50D, 7D vs Nikon D90)?

    Quote Originally Posted by greyblk View Post
    What shall I do?

    We all want the answer to that one, Shelly. Mine is about life in general, yours is about a camera.

    My advice...

    1. Decide what make you are going for then stick to it or you will waste a small fortune. Despite all of the tosh that's written/spoken about Canon v Nikon, when push comes to shove there isn't much between them.

    Beyond that, it's really down to budget. If you can afford it, and you are serious about taking your photography somewhere then go for a good quality body and the best lenses you can afford, as you need them. The only thing you can't get from the store is ability - the rest of it (as Lester Burnham said) is 'just stuff'. I have a 50D (also 5D) and it's pretty good. But I'd take a 1D, if it were going, and do something with it. Drop it probably!

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    Moderator Dave Humphries's Avatar
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    Re: What shall I do? Canon (50D, 7D vs Nikon D90)?

    Quote Originally Posted by greyblk View Post
    Thats true... What camera do you have? What do you mostly shoot?

    What lens do u suggest for portraits?
    Hi Shelly,

    I think Colin's point was; it really doesn't matter what camera he uses

    To see what he shoots, look at the link after his name in the post above.

    OK, lets simplify;

    If you're comfortable with Canon eronomics, there's no point changing (and this coming from a Nikon user , will 'they' ever forgive me?)

    Now bear in mind I am not familiar with Canon, other than what I have learnt here, but here goes ...

    If you want longevity, go for at least a 40D or 50D, or a 7D which are all 1.6 crop factor cameras.
    Later, if you think you might get a 5D or 5D MkII, or even a 1 series, as these are all FF cameras, it means you should get EF, not EF-S lenses now.

    Regarding a lens for portraiture, received wisdom usually suggests a FF prime lens of around 85mm because you want a wide aperture and good bokeh. On a crop factor cameras, means about 55mm. However, a lot of people prefer something 'longer' and use a 70 - 200mm zoom, but a fast one costs real money. We're back to budget again

    If we're using language and terms you don't understand right now, fear not, but please don't rush out and buy anything yet. Stick around here, read tutorials, post images for feedback, and above all, ask questions - only when you understand what we are saying should you spend money.

    Hope that helps,

  16. #16

    Re: What shall I do? Canon (50D, 7D vs Nikon D90)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Humphries View Post
    ... but please don't rush out and buy anything yet.
    Don't listen to him, Shelly, he knows nowt. Go out and spend lots of money on nice gear (Canon) and post it to me at

    Carreg....

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    Re: What shall I do? Canon (50D, 7D vs Nikon D90)?

    Daves right don't rush out and buy, I can't suggest anything cos I'm old and think the grass is greener the other side.

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    Re: What shall I do? Canon (50D, 7D vs Nikon D90)?

    Shelly

    The only thing i can add (unless already mentioned) is get both these cameras in your hands (and others). Unless you are a star photographic technician and are well grounded in technical data interpretation, for 99.9% of your work, you will not notice any difference in the images these cameras produce. As I think Dave mentioned above the camera does not 'take' the photograph. Its down to your eye for light, composition and setting the camera correctly (or incorrectly depending on what you wish to achieve). So have a play with each of your shortlisted cameras in store. Does it sit naturally in your hands? Is it too heavy to cart around all day? (especially with a 70-200 mm attached or similar), Can you reach all the controls and combinations of controls with the camera to your eye? etc etc.

    I can guarantee one thing. If you post an image on this forum not one person will tell you that you should of used such and such a lens or it would have made a better shot if you owned a 5D mk II or whatever. They are trying to interpret what it is you are trying to achieve and this never has the least thing to do with the equipment you are using. There are forums out there that will only judge you by the goodies in your camera bag but if you take their advice you will need $20,000 not $2,000.

    If you want to do weddings (and get paid for it) you will have to be prepared to invest in fast glass and that is down to the lighting conditions that you are likely to encounter. I did a wedding with slow glass and it is very, very limiting given the importance of the event. So before I agree to do any more weddings (even if I wanted to) I would not set foot out of the house without a Canon EF 70-200mm f2.8 L IS II USM Lens...and that would set me back 2,000 (approx $3,000). Oh and as quoted above....a second body

    You will thoroughly enjoy whatever camera you decide upon but this is the first step so just concentrate on building your skills your equipment shortfalls will only become apparent as yo ascend the learning curve.

    Steve

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    Re: What shall I do? Canon (50D, 7D vs Nikon D90)?

    Quote Originally Posted by greyblk View Post
    What camera do you have?
    I currently use a Canon 1Ds Mark III

    What do you mostly shoot?
    I shoot mainly landscape and portraits.

    What lens do u suggest for portraits?
    It depends if you're shooting head shots - head and shoulders - 3/4 - full body or environmental portraits. Mostly I use an EF135/F2L and an EF 70-200mm/F2.8L IS USM. If I were using a crop-factor camera then I would use my EF85mm/F1.2L instead of the 135/F2, but still keep the 70-200. For portraiture, longer focal lengths give a very flattering compression to facial features.

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    New Member greyblk's Avatar
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    Re: What shall I do? Canon (50D, 7D vs Nikon D90)?

    You guys rock....

    Thank you Dave, Steve, and Colin... and Artith for the laugh

    I think i may go with a 50D... and take my time and invest in lenses... I've been reading that the 55mm is good to have all around capability (even for landscapes and portraits) what do u think? I saw (starter kit) 50D body only and it comes with 70-300mm & 28-135mm both IS, get a uv filter, bag, battery for about $1600 USD. What does it mean "body only" as it comes with 2 lenses. Does that mean no software, etc?

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