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Thread: GX7 and G5 ergonomics

  1. #1
    davidedric's Avatar
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    GX7 and G5 ergonomics

    Hi,

    I recently decided to add a second m4/3 body, and after thinking about what I need and handling several Panasonic and Olympus bodies I decided to go for a GX7 to add to my existing G5.

    I would have probably bought a G7 if it existed, because I do like the mini dslr feel of the G5, and I was prepared for the GX7 to be a less easy to handle, but it hasn't turned out that way. BTW I use the evf for almost all shooting.

    I use the G5 with what I would call an "slr grip", i.e. with three fingers round the grip and forefinger on the shutter button. It works fine, but leaves my thumb and heel of hand along the back of the camera, and I sometimes accidentally press one of the rear buttons or the four way controller.

    I quickly found with the GX7 that I have to adopt a different grip: two fingers round the grip, middle finger above the grip, and forefinger on the shutter button. That has the effect of rotating my hand a little so that my thumb now lies along the side of the rear buttons, and so far I haven't fouled them.

    Just posted for interest.

    Dave

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    Moderator Manfred M's Avatar
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    Re: GX7 and G5 ergonomics

    Interesting thoughts Dave, although I reached the opposite conclusion on the GX7, I would categorize it having relatively poor ergonomics, but better than the other mFT bodies I looked at. Have taken over 12,000 shots with it over the past couple of months, my opinion has not improved at all.

    The main issue with the camera is its small size, which means that the camera designers had very limited real estate to work with when positioning the buttons and other controls. I tend to be a shooter who likes to change settings without taking my eyes off the viewfinder. In theory, the Q-menu button, I should be able to do that. Unfortuately, the low profile buttons do not allow for good repeatable landmarking of the controls through tactile means. I don't have particularly large hands, but still found the camera body so small that I could not shoot the way I do with my DSLR.

    I also found that it was all too easy to accidentally change the camera settings. The location of the controls and the detents in the three wheels are rather marginal.

    One of the most annoying features was that the viewfinder would go black after two successive shots. I am not really a burst style shooter, but the overall response while clearing the buffer meant having to wait for the viewfinder to come on again. Again, not desireable performance.

    I would find the positioning of the viewfinder great, if I didn't wear glasses. It sitting off to the very left means that the shooters nose clears the camera body quite nicely. Unfortunately, if one wears glasses, the viewfinder is much more difficult to use, especially in bright light.

    Battery life, by the way is terrible. I was regularly running through two or three batteries a day.

    Will I continue to use this camera; of course; but only if small size and low weight are the primary consideration (as they were on our recent trip to South Asia). My full-frame DLSR will remain my camera of choice for just about everything else.

    I guess my conclusion is that the camera's small size is its greatest weakness.

  3. #3
    Shadowman's Avatar
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    Re: GX7 and G5 ergonomics

    Quote Originally Posted by GrumpyDiver View Post
    Interesting thoughts Dave, although I reached the opposite conclusion on the GX7, I would categorize it having relatively poor ergonomics, but better than the other mFT bodies I looked at. Have taken over 12,000 shots with it over the past couple of months, my opinion has not improved at all.

    The main issue with the camera is its small size, which means that the camera designers had very limited real estate to work with when positioning the buttons and other controls. I tend to be a shooter who likes to change settings without taking my eyes off the viewfinder. In theory, the Q-menu button, I should be able to do that. Unfortuately, the low profile buttons do not allow for good repeatable landmarking of the controls through tactile means. I don't have particularly large hands, but still found the camera body so small that I could not shoot the way I do with my DSLR.

    I also found that it was all too easy to accidentally change the camera settings. The location of the controls and the detents in the three wheels are rather marginal.

    One of the most annoying features was that the viewfinder would go black after two successive shots. I am not really a burst style shooter, but the overall response while clearing the buffer meant having to wait for the viewfinder to come on again. Again, not desireable performance.

    I would find the positioning of the viewfinder great, if I didn't wear glasses. It sitting off to the very left means that the shooters nose clears the camera body quite nicely. Unfortunately, if one wears glasses, the viewfinder is much more difficult to use, especially in bright light.

    Battery life, by the way is terrible. I was regularly running through two or three batteries a day.

    Will I continue to use this camera; of course; but only if small size and low weight are the primary consideration (as they were on our recent trip to South Asia). My full-frame DLSR will remain my camera of choice for just about everything else.

    I guess my conclusion is that the camera's small size is its greatest weakness.
    How often were you making setting changes?

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    Moderator Manfred M's Avatar
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    Re: GX7 and G5 ergonomics

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowman View Post
    How often were you making setting changes?
    Pretty well everytime I took a different shot. I tend to select an ISO setting that is appropriate for the lighting situation and will then play around with either aperture value or shutter speed, depending on the subject matter.

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    Shadowman's Avatar
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    Re: GX7 and G5 ergonomics

    Quote Originally Posted by GrumpyDiver View Post
    Pretty well everytime I took a different shot. I tend to select an ISO setting that is appropriate for the lighting situation and will then play around with either aperture value or shutter speed, depending on the subject matter.
    Not familiar with your specific model, I have the Olympus EPL-1, does your camera have ISO bracketing? Slows my camera up by about one minute for processing but I can set camera at ISO 400 and exposure 3frames 1.0EV. My camera doesn't go black but when using certain functions like ISO bracketing camera will not function until processing is complete.

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    Moderator Manfred M's Avatar
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    Re: GX7 and G5 ergonomics

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowman View Post
    Not familiar with your specific model, I have the Olympus EPL-1, does your camera have ISO bracketing?
    so far as I can tell, no. Not something that I would tend to use. My philosophy in shooting is to use as low an ISO as I can get away with; so whenever possible I set that manually. That gives me the best dynamic range, best colour range and lowest noise.

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    davidedric's Avatar
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    Re: GX7 and G5 ergonomics

    I am still playing with the GX7 and still liking it. However, I haven't taken anything like 12,000 shots with it. Sheesh Manfred, that's pretty impressive over a couple of months - more like a couple of years for me. Anyway, going on vacation for a couple of weeks in January (to Florida ) so I will give it a good work out and report back.

    Dave

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    Moderator Manfred M's Avatar
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    Re: GX7 and G5 ergonomics

    Enjoy your vacation and I'm glad you are enjoying your camera.

    I am surprised at the number of good shots I got because I found the camera very frustrating to use. I have half a mind to sell it, but the other models I looked at were not even as good as it is:

    1. Far to easy to accidently change settings. This is primarily due to knobs that turn too easily, buttons that are pressed too easily and a poorly designed user interface. Even disabling the touch screen did not really fix this problem;

    2. Slow autofocus (when compared to my D800's phase detect) and the viewfinder black out after a sequence of two shots in a row. Not an action shooter's camera for sure; and

    3. Unacceptable levels of noise at ISO 800 and above. The amount of noise at even moderate ISO settings is not acceptable for a camera modern camera in this price range.

  9. #9
    davidedric's Avatar
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    Re: GX7 and G5 ergonomics

    Thanks, Manfred, will see how we go. Not really surprised it suffers by comparison with a D800!

    Not so far been troubled with the touch screen, though I do have the "touch focus" set to off - I had too much trouble with setting the focus point with my nose on the G5.

    One thing puzzles me, the viewfinder blackout which you have mentioned before. Even shooting burst in RAW I see no interruption in the viewfinder (I do have the review time set to 0). When do you see it?

    Dave

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    Moderator Manfred M's Avatar
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    Re: GX7 and G5 ergonomics

    Quote Originally Posted by davidedric View Post
    One thing puzzles me, the viewfinder blackout which you have mentioned before. Even shooting burst in RAW I see no interruption in the viewfinder (I do have the review time set to 0). When do you see it?
    I tried to reproduce it this morning and couldn't.

    All my camera settings are the same as before, so I am starting to suspect my 64GB SD cards. I have some first generation ones that have fairly slow read / write speeds. Right now I have an older 32GB card in the camera and the camera is not behaving this way.

    I'll get back to you once I figure it out.

    Manfred

    I tried one of the other (slow 64 GB), freshly formated cards and saw no impact on shooting speed.

    I then tried in with a fairly full card and saw it happening there. That makes me suspect that it is a write from buffer / addressing issue, especially as the card fills up. I'm not sure if this will happen with a lower capacity card. I am going to try it with one of my older 8 GB cards to see what happens.
    Last edited by Manfred M; 10th December 2014 at 06:53 PM.

  11. #11
    inkista's Avatar
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    Re: GX7 and G5 ergonomics

    It could be the burst speed you choose. I tend to stick to the medium speed, because if I went higher than that on my G3, I'd get the annoying EVF blackout. Same on the GX-7.

  12. #12
    Moderator Manfred M's Avatar
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    Re: GX7 and G5 ergonomics

    Quote Originally Posted by inkista View Post
    It could be the burst speed you choose. I tend to stick to the medium speed, because if I went higher than that on my G3, I'd get the annoying EVF blackout. Same on the GX-7.
    Except that I do not use burst mode. The shots with the viewfinder blackout were manually triggered single shots (in quick succession) and I seem to have gotten the viewfinder blackout after taking a second shot. My issue is that I can't seem to replicate those conditions right now to figure out what caused this to occur.

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