Auto-ISO - inadequately implemented?

[Mike Buckley]

I always ignore ideas that tell people what we should always and never do, as I can't think of anything in the practice of excellent photography that should always or never be done.

[AB26]

as I can't think of anything in the practice of excellent photography that should always or never be done.

ALWAYS make sure exposure is correct before releasing the shutter. NEVER point straight into the sun when looking trough the viewfinder.

[Dave Humphries]

Richard,

Great article you linked there - thanks.


~ BBF discussion snipped to a new thread ~

I want to use in in Manual mode, not Aperture priority.
I will never be able to switch Auto-ISO on or off via a menu as quickly or reliably as twisting the mode dial a notch or two.

Mike,

I maintain a file of "starter" settings on a memory card. At the start of each shoot, I upload those settings

I can see what you're suggesting there, starting from a known point is half the battle, thanks.
It is one option for me to explore, although as I say, I can see me needing to re-write U1 and U2 frequently during a typical day's shooting to be sure that when I selected either, it didn't change something back to standard that I'd purposely changed to suit the conditions of the moment.

I have never saved settings to a card before - I thought the card was for pictures

[dubaiphil]

No Dave, I do not think you need an additional button to set Auto ISO.
Practice it a few times, going into the menu and turning Auto ISO on and off. After a few times you know exactly what to do and how to do it quickly. Use it shooting in Aperture priority mode and see the difference.

When shooting in a semi Auto mode with Auto ISO turned on there is no logical reason to quickly readjust to Auto ISO off. You either shoot with Auto ISO on or off. You know your cameras high ISO capabilities and that is what you use, maximum acceptable high ISO.

Remember, ISO is the last resort a Nikon camera will use to adjust for correct exposure.

What I would like to know is WHY people are so obsessed with using BB focus. Is it a cool tool or do people actually know when to and why they use BB focus? I’ll bet you 90% of BB focus users won’t know what I mean (and they will dispute my statement) when I say BB focus should only be used when using continuous AF. It should not at all be used by anybody using the focus and recompose style of shooting.

Andre

I'll give you an example for point 1 regarding Auto ISO on and off. If you're shooting street photography and wish to change settings fast to record a scene differently, then you may wish to rapidly move from auto ISO on to off. E.g. You're shooting with a minimum shutter speed of 1/160th in varying light as you're walking through an area (so auto ISO is useful) and then want to change style on the fly to shoot longer exposures and capture movement by blurring the subject. If you're in auto ISO then you have to delve into menu banks or user profiles or worse still the menu system if you haven't got that set up. Then dial in a higher f stop to get the shutter speed you require if you're in aperture priority. So if you're shooting in varied conditions and light and want to change style on the fly it could be very useful. That's a pretty specialised need, admittedly, but it does occur.


~ BBF discussion snipped to a new thread ~

[Mike Buckley]

I have never saved settings to a card before - I thought the card was for pictures

If you ever get your camera repaired and returned to you with all of your custom settings changed to the default settings, you'll very quickly come to the understanding of why a memory card is not used only for image files.

I keep the memory card with the settings in the first slot. The little thingy on the memory card is set to the position that prevents anything from being written to it. That fools the camera into "thinking" the memory card is full, so it automatically writes the image files to the card in the second slot.

[Brownbear]

Hi Dave,

With respect to your comment on turning Auto ISO off... (My apologies if I have misunderstood your comment)


At the moment, I don't use it - and that's mainly because turning it on and off is certainly not intuitive, nor even that easy to do quickly.

To turn it off/on with ease just press the ISO button on the back of your camera (3rd button/left hand side) and rotate the command dial at the front of your camera at the same time.


Here are some links to the use of Auto ISO, Robert O'Tooles article being especially informative...

http://www.robertotoole.com/2011/12/...ird-auto-mode/

http://darrellyoung.blogspot.ca/2010...nsitivity.html

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/33260335

I find it very helpful for BIF, as described by Joe when used in Manual Mode (set shutter speed and aperture, and being able to set the minimum shutter speed for it to kick in). Not only for the changing light but also say your photographing Herons in a place that you know a Bald Eagle is nesting, and you know that the Bald Eagle will make an appearance - but not when or where.

[PhotomanJohn]

Not that I have a lot to add but I seldom use auto-ISO and when I do it is with the camera in "M" exposure mode. I understand what Dave is saying because I use it more now that I have the D800 which allows me to switch between auto and fixed ISO by holding the ISO button down and rotating the front control wheel. I agree with Mike about ISO being the least important element of exposure and I should probably use auto-ISO more than I do.


~ BBF discussion snipped to a new thread ~

John

[Dave Humphries]

To turn it off/on with ease just press the ISO button on the back of your camera (3rd button/left hand side) and rotate the command dial at the front of your camera at the same time.

Thanks Christina,

I had a feeling there was a better way than menu delving.

Have to go out for a bit soon; but I will read those links and play with my camera later.

It took me a couple of goes with BB focusing to really get to grips with it, so perhaps Auto-ISO will be the same

Between all the replies here, I stand a far better chance now than I did this morning.

Thanks again, Dave

[Mike Buckley]

To turn [Auto ISO] off/on with ease just press the ISO button on the back of your camera (3rd button/left hand side) and rotate the command dial at the front of your camera at the same time.

Wow! That D7100 capability is not on the D7000. That's almost enough reason to upgrade to the D7100.

[jprzybyla]

Hi Dave, back from out shooting birds. I use manual mode with auto-ISO. I set the shutter speed and aperture for the shot at hand. I then control the exposure/ISO by using the +/- EV button and wheel.

[William W]

. . .you are still mis-understanding me (but no worries).
When I say a "fixed" exposure, I mean just that (set in stone); e.g. 1/1000s @ f/8 @ ISO 3200.
I do not want the camera to attempt to change it for me in any way . . .
[subject moving] . . . alternately from bright sky to dark foliage and back again, etc.

Correct.

I was misunderstanding “fixed” to mean ‘corrected’ – as opposed to “fixed” to mean ‘set in stone’.

Also I didn’t appreciate the exact meaning when you wrote “ the logic of my suggestion is inverted. . . so perhaps the new option should be called "AS" mode”.

Thank you for explaining, I now understand.

I understand your reasons. I think that you are on the correct path with the ‘U’ Settings or use the "press and dial" functionality suggested by Christina (the latter option of which I was not aware).


***

RE (the underlined bit):

That said; it has just occurred to me that actually . . . (or ATv or TAv for Canon)?

"TAv" sounds familiar, is that what Canon call P mode on some models perhaps?

P Mode (Canon and Nikon) is where the CAMERA’s TTL METER SELECTS both the Shutter Speed and the Aperture.

In some of Canon’s literature the nomenclature used is “P-AE” (Meaning “Program - Auto Exposure”). Maybe that’s what you were remembering.

***

Based upon my understanding of the exact functionality that you require: I retract my previous "No. Definitively No" in post #6.

A Mode Dial selection labelled ‘AS’ and with functionality as you describe would be useful for you. If useful for you then it would be surely useful for others too - I am thinking "me too".

(Unfortunately) I don’t think it will happen in the near future . . . and on my wish list is for Canon to make EC available with Auto ISO in Manual Mode: and I don’t think that is coming soon, either.

(As an aside I do use the "C" settings in my Canon gear, but I rarely use Auto ISO, because when I would like Auto ISO I would usually like to use BOTH "M" Mode - and - Exposure Compensation in conjunction with Auto ISO.)


WW

[Mike Buckley]

I give up. I've been trying to imagine what "AS" would mean if it was implemented and I'm coming up blank.

[Dave Humphries]

I give up. I've been trying to imagine what "AS" would mean if it was implemented and I'm coming up blank.

Sorry Mike, I have confused the issue by starting off the thread calling it one thing (I mode) then changing it to "AS" mode.

AS mode, as I proposed, or "TAv" as it is apparently implemented by Pentax* means you manually choose an Aperture and a Shutter speed and the camera uses the meter (and any EC offset chosen if Nikon) to set the ISO to achieve correct exposure.

* Referenced one of Christina's links; http://www.dpreview.com/forums/threa...-post-33260335
That thread also has someone suggesting calling it an "SA" mode! (same thing)

The advantage of "AS" having it's own position on the mode dial is that M is still available for the old-fashioned 'completely manual' purpose, for the likes of Jeremy and myself - but I bet others would use it!

Most stuff I have read today suggests people prefer to use Auto-ISO in "M" mode.
The benefit of using it in A/Av or S/Tv, versus the complexity of understanding the algorithm and settings and different proprietary behaviours implemented by the various manufacturers, seems to (perhaps) overwhelm most photographers shooting using semi-auto modes. For the record, I currently include myself in this category.

[Mike Buckley]

Got it! Thanks, Dave!

[Polar01]

Just checked my D600 push the ISO turn the front command wheel and you change from the set ISO to auto ISO. I see that the D7100 in post #26 by Christina.

Cheers: Allan

[mrinmoyvk]

Wow! That D7100 capability is not on the D7000. That's almost enough reason to upgrade to the D7100.

I think I have that on my D5200 also. pressing the customizable function button (I have customized for ISO) and rotating the dial, but let me have a 2nd look tonight.

[Dave Humphries]

Hi again Christina,

To turn it off/on with ease just press the ISO button on the back of your camera (3rd button/left hand side) and rotate the command dial at the front of your camera at the same time.

I have just had a play with this method this morning and I can see it working for me

I am used to changing ISO quickly using that button with the rear command wheel, but like Bill, I hadn't realised that the same button, with front command wheel, very easily turns off/on "ISO-Auto".

The press (hold) a button and rotate the front wheel one click is the same action I use to switch from DX to 1.3x crop mode (aka "24 - 16" to "18 - 12") on the fly, so I don't think it will take me long to learn it in conjunction with the ISO button.

Many, many thanks for the help, Dave

[Mike Buckley]

As a reminder to everyone, Dave has moved the discussion of back-button focusing to this thread.

[Dave Humphries]

As a reminder to everyone, Dave has moved the discussion of back-button focusing to this thread.

Thanks Mike,

It was still a work in progress as you posted, but I think I have completed dis-entanglement of the two discussions now.

Back button focus confusion discussion
.

[Adrian]

Surely you do not need to go into the menus to change Auto ISO?

If you press the ISO button on the top of a Canon, the front scroll wheel lets you choose any ISO, including Auto ISO (it comes at the low end of the ISO range) instantly.

I am being dim here I expect, but can't EC simply be changed at will after a half press of the shutter, but rotating the rear scroll wheel (assuming you are in a semi automatic mode such as AV or TV or manual).

You don't need to take your eye from the viewfinder to do either of these.

I agree with the post above from Dave about set up for birds. The wildlife pro we did our last course with drummed into us exactly the same principles. Birds are very difficult as they inconveniently move about very fast!