Advice wanted - blotchy skin

[LocalHero1953]

I'd appreciate some experienced advice. I will be doing a portrait shoot in a few weeks' time of a woman in, I'm guessing, her late thirties or early forties. She was previously a well-known musical performer, and is now restarting her career after having children. My shots are for her website. I have taken a number of photos of her before outdoors in shade, or indoors under various room lights (over which I had no control) and I have always had difficulty with her skin. She has developed a rather poor complexion, particularly on her forehead. Some of this I can deal with by making the lighting as even as possible in those areas, and a bit of help in post processing. However, the skin also shows up as exceptionally red/magenta and blotchy, which I can modify in post by adjusting red and magenta saturation and hue, but not enough. I have a number of considerations and approaches that I might try:

- I use a Leica M, which has a thin IR filter, so I'm guessing that shallow capillaries are producing a strong IR element that the sensor responds to. I have invested in an IR cut filter, which I have yet to try.

- I have googled the issue, and I have seen comments that flash lighting can penetrate much deeper beneath the skin than just the surface, and this can be cause of blotchy skin in portraits. In my planned shoot I was planning to use flash lighting. Will this just exacerbate the problem?

- I have also seen recommendations to use tissues and rice powder to remove any oils and create a better skin surface for artificial lighting. Any experience in this forum?

- I have seen comments that "normal" cosmetics respond poorly to studio lighting ("the flash just goes straight through") and that one should use theatrical make-up. Opinions?

- I could revert to B&W. However, I don't want to do this if there is still some approach I could take in colour.

I should add that I am an amateur photographer doing this for free, and she knows I am using this as a learning experience. We both gain by the process, and if I felt fully competent to do this shoot I would be charging for it.

The shoot will be in a large barn which has large doors which give the opportunity for subdued natural lighting as well as flash. I have two flashes on stands with a couple of brollies and reflectors, one of which is 60", so I hope to generate soft light.

I do not want to post some of my previous photos of her that show the issues on this forum, in case they creep into the wider world.

Any advice would be welcome.

[chauncey]

Take some time to educate yourself to do the lady justice...http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=...sion&FORM=VDRE

[LocalHero1953]

Thanks, but I think the chances of me becoming an expert on make-up in two weeks are slim . I'll see what I can glean from that site (I'd come across it before), but I'm already coming to the conclusion that I may need a make-up assistant.

PS US/UK language differences show up on that site. I thought all that advice about seniors portraits would really useful...... But seniors on this side of the water are >60, while on your side are <18 !

[chauncey]

I wasn't suggesting that you personally do it...just insure that it is done properly.

[Manfred M]

I personally like the idea of employing a professional makeup artist.

It provides the photographer a FAR better base to start with and a lot less work in post. If you know any wedding photographers in they should know a few in the business. Based on what you have written, this is probably the best solution. A good concealer to hide the the skin flaws and then some traditional makeup techniques would make a lot more sense than trying to doing everything in post. Any decent photo retoucher would give you this advice.

I had a chance to work with some makeup artists; I probably learned more about makeup and how I can use a MUA to my advantage when it comes to shooting portraits. Frankly, this is what the high end pros do; it's not hard to figure out why they do it.

[BJ Denning]

If makeup is not available or doesn't work out, it seems a retouch in Photoshop may be the trick. Seems like the latest trick I am seeing is Frequency Separation, which allows you to retouch the texture separate from the colors. So you could use this to smooth out the tone of the skin and not loose any texture.

Here is a tutorial. The photo looks a bit like a cartoon, but that is to demonstrate the technique. Use less or more to your taste.

[Manfred M]

If makeup is not available or doesn't work out, it seems a retouch in Photoshop may be the trick. Seems like the latest trick I am seeing is Frequency Separation, which allows you to retouch the texture separate from the colors. So you could use this to smooth out the tone of the skin and not loose any texture.

Here is a tutorial. The photo looks a bit like a cartoon, but that is to demonstrate the technique. Use less or more to your taste.

Thanks for the link. I watched the video.

One comment - great if you want the Barbie doll "plastic" look. This is definitely not a technique I will consider in my using in my retouching workflow...

[Richard Lundberg]

It's her skin, she should pay for makeup. She'll be using the same tricks later anyway.

[AB26]

Try a very soft thin silky screen over your lens to “soften” the images.

[LocalHero1953]

Thanks for the ideas.
I should have added I will be using a 1930's Leitz Hektor 7.3cm lens as a soft portrait lens.

[Manfred M]

That should be an interesting shoot.

I personally was never a fan of the Leica M for portraiture (the rangefinder was never quite precise enough for my liking), so I went with the R camera and lenses. The Hektor is a B&W lens, so I wonder how it does with a modern colour M. I remember doing some work with a slightly newer f/2 58mm Zeiss Jena Biotar from the late 1940s and being amazed how well it performed against more modern lenses. Again, it was a B&W lens and was built before lens coatings became commonplace.

Regardless, I hope you post some of the results from your shoot.

[LocalHero1953]

I'll post some if I can (especially if their successful!).
I agree, for portraiture, an SLR would be easier, though I find I can work within the M's limitations. The electronic viewfinder for the M helps, though it can't be used at the same time as a wireless flash trigger.

I have used the Hektor quite a lot for non-portraiture since getting it a couple of months ago, and I see no problem with the colour. Out of focus highlight distortion is unpredictable, but usually a positive addition to a shot rather than a distraction. I'll post some here later when I'm back on my PC.

[LocalHero1953]

Some shots with the Leitz Hektor 7.3cm f1.9. The distortion away from the centre is quite extreme - you need to keep a portrait face quite central!

[JR1]

portrait Professional

[William W]

She (you) need to employ a professional make-up artist: one experienced with Stills Models' Shoots.

Yes, use Flash.

Doing anything less will be wanting and also time consuming: though if the final product is ONLY for the web page the images are small enough, an untrained eye might not detect that post production has been employed to fix the blotchy skin.

But other the hand I don't think that either you or she will be selecting what images to use, by looking at tiny-weenie proofs.

WW

[rpcrowe]

Take a free trial with Portrait Professional ( http://www.portraitprofessional.com/buy/# )

You may or may not like it. I tend to reduce the default settings a bit when I use it.

The trial is free and version V.12 seems like it is $50 USD.

I still use version V.9

BTW: If you shoot Canon and want to do some work with a soft focus lens, the Canon 135mm f/2.8 Soft Focus is often available quite inexpensively on the used market. I got mine for less than $100. But since I purchased the 70-200mm f/4L IS lens soon afterward, I haven't used the 135mm SF lens very often.

I also work with NIK Viveza for a bit of diffusion by reducing the structure in PP...

Additionally, there are many varieties of soft focus and diffusion filters available. These were most often used in my film days. The problem shooting digitally wit a soft focus filter is that you get what you shoot. Shooting without a soft focus filter, you can work with diffusion and soft focus in post processing. http://www.photoshopessentials.com/p...ft-focus-lens/

BTW: Soft Focus is not the same as out of focus...

[BJ Denning]

Thanks for the link. I watched the video.

One comment - great if you want the Barbie doll "plastic" look. This is definitely not a technique I will consider in my using in my retouching workflow...

Agreed for the example. But that is why I said "... a tutorial. The photo looks a bit like a cartoon, but that is to demonstrate the technique. Use less or more to your taste." You could always use the technique to even the "the skin also shows up as exceptionally red/magenta and blotchy" and then lower the opacity to allow some to bleed through.

Just a tool. And yes the tutorial is exaggerated.

[Manfred M]

Agreed for the example. But that is why I said "... a tutorial. The photo looks a bit like a cartoon, but that is to demonstrate the technique. Use less or more to your taste." You could always use the technique to even the "the skin also shows up as exceptionally red/magenta and blotchy" and then lower the opacity to allow some to bleed through.

Just a tool. And yes the tutorial is exaggerated.

Yes and no. I have found that pretty well any technique that uses Gaussian blur in retouching faces ends up giving you that plastic look. This technique attempts to correct that by pushing some texture back into the plastic looking skin look created by the Gaussian blur; it still does not result in natural looking skin. Skin is textured and light reflects off the micro-textures and pores in the skin; blurring removes these and creates that plastic look.

I'm afraid, I still feel that a decent makeup job and then some minor dodging, burning and cloning (sometimes with a touch of noise added back in the cloned areas) are the only way to get natural looking skin in an image.

[William W]

One can only expect that the OP is quite explicit and accurate in the description which was provided.

It occurs to me that the key factors for consideration are obvious and also reasonably common and that these considerations have been detailed precisely, in the opening post.

Maybe that’s because I have dealt with similar portrait situations and consequently perceive the key factors MUST be addressed with correct preparation that is to say one must use an experienced Make-up Artist.

. . . portrait shoot . . . of a woman in . . . her late thirties or early forties . . . I have taken a number of photos of her before outdoors in shade, or indoors under various room lights . . . and I have always had difficulty with her skin. She has developed a rather poor complexion, particularly on her forehead . . . the skin also shows up as exceptionally red/magenta and blotchy, which I can modify in post by adjusting red and magenta saturation and hue, but not enough.

WW

[Manfred M]

Just as an aside; makeup artists are not that hard to find. Your client may already know one and be comfortable with one.

If not, wedding photographers often have some that they work with (with the advantage that they know what looks good in photos), make up counters at stores will often know some and most towns and cities have makeup / beauty schools that train them, so a quick phone call to any of these would be a way of putting you in touch. The only word of caution is to get one that has worked with photographers before; pick the wrong makeup under flash (mostly eye shadow) and you can add to your woes.

This is something the client should pay for (ideally this work will be done just before the shoot and the MUA should stay on site until the shoot is done). A good foundation and then some concealer will do wonders for blotchy skin. Powder on top of this base will do a great job in fighting both the blotchy skin and and reflections from the lights. Perspiration and oils can build up during a shoot and a light application of powder from time to time will make your job as a photographer a lot easier.

This is a case where your reputation as a photographer is on the line, so you may as well make life easy for yourself and set yourself up for success.