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Thread: Nice to be back in civilisation....

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    davidedric's Avatar
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    Nice to be back in civilisation....

    I sometimes look around and post on DP Review (DPR). I was over there yesterday, and noticing that the equivalent forum to this was titled "Retouching" suggested that it might be more accurately called "Post Processing", or some such - and got a torrent of intemperate comment.

    Apparently it had been tried before, and people got really really upset, and some even stopped posting, and what we are doing is just making a few fine adjustments as they used to do in wet darkrooms (I wonder what Ansel Adams would have made of that), and that I should have searched the archive to see how much trouble I could stir up, and that I shouldn't make stupid suggestions, and that I should "show what I can do" before rocking the boat..... Sheesh, worse than Luminous Landscape!

    Good job I have a thick skin , and I'm glad to be back here.

    Dave

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    Re: Nice to be back in civilisation....

    I recently told a fellow 1x.com colleague (supposed shock photographer) that he had an underdeveloped prefrontal cortex as well an ego that resided underfoot. Don't quite understand why he took offense.

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    davidedric's Avatar
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    Re: Nice to be back in civilisation....

    Or as someone once said of a colleague "you could paddle in his deepest thoughts and not get your ankles wet"

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    Re: Nice to be back in civilisation....

    Just had a look at your thread on dpreview, David: bizarre responses.
    I'm always on the lookout for friendly and courteous forums, and mentally tagging those that are not. CiC is up there with the best along with Getdpi. My home ground is Leica Users' Forum, which is OK in the obscure sub fora but it occasionally attracts the odd troll, especially when new models come out. Dpreview is just a jungle as far as I can see. I thought LuLa was more civilised, but I've seen some fractious behaviour recently.

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    Re: Nice to be back in civilisation....

    Quote Originally Posted by LocalHero1953 View Post
    Just had a look at your thread on dpreview, David: bizarre responses.
    I'm always on the lookout for friendly and courteous forums, and mentally tagging those that are not. CiC is up there with the best along with Getdpi. My home ground is Leica Users' Forum, which is OK in the obscure sub fora but it occasionally attracts the odd troll, especially when new models come out. Dpreview is just a jungle as far as I can see. I thought LuLa was more civilised, but I've seen some fractious behaviour recently.
    The responders on Dpreview become more civilised once they've been made moderators.

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    Re: Nice to be back in civilisation....

    One does not have to lift up too many rocks at DPReview to find a sarcastic to and fro. I avoid the attacks usually but do find that website loses a good member now and again to the negative vibe. But, it is kind of like the Big Apple with all its many forums covering so much gear and so many topics. It is usually easier to be friendly in a small town like this. Some flickr groups also have a certain warmth and camaraderie.

    Update: I did visit your thread in Retouching and found it all quite amusing. In between the borderline nasty posts were some rather amusing ones. Given time, some will see through the knee jerk nastiness and try to lighten the situation. Apparently, something bad happened in the past and they are trying to keep it well buried. It is an odd name for its theme. I tend to think of retouching as portrait work. While I am on your side, I am not going to mount a charge into the bayonets to get the name changed.
    Last edited by Brev00; 21st April 2014 at 09:43 PM.

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    Re: Nice to be back in civilisation....

    But, it is kind of like the Big Apple with all its many forums covering so much gear and so many topics. It is usually easier to be friendly in a small town like this.
    It's strange how forum cultures seem to develop. Lightroomforums is another one that is helpful and constructive, and the micros four thirds user forum is too, but I guess you are right that a smaller forum is likely to hang together. On the other hand, CiC covers a very wide range of topics.

    I feel myself about to launch off into game theory and evolutionarily stable strategies, but I think another glass of wine is a better route.

    G'night all, probably,

    Dave

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    Re: Nice to be back in civilisation....

    haha one of the reasons I chose here when started out learning was due to it being more friendly than many places. DPR is not so bad but it can get a bit much at times. I tend to lurk a lot more than post since often others are more qualified to help and 9 out of 10 times I come across totally wrong to what I meant or I just unintentionally annoy people whatever, unintended but unfortunately true haha hence I prefer to lurk.

    I know another big photo forum that is similar to that response on dpr but in pretty much all topics, dpr has some great advice and opinions and can be and often is civil but there are fair bit of flame threads. CiC seems to never have that, I can't ever recall seeing outright flaming even when two parties didn't agree on viewpoints it was civil. The place I'm thinking of (I wont name) seems to consistently descend into my gear is better than yours lists and all jumping in on the attack to abuse those with the audacity to ask genuine questions many new or even serious amateurs would be expected to ask. Not slight abuse either but direct insults to the same tone of booing someone out of a room, I'm surprised it still draws so many users tbh.

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    Re: Nice to be back in civilisation....

    I still spend a fair amount of time at Photography on the Net and I find the same thing. That is..if you're not shooting with at least $8000 worth of gear, shooting RAW and processing in CS6 and been published in multiple magazines, then you, my friend, are a hack making snapshots. A very clicky place where a select few are constantly praised regardless of what they post. Not all great mind you.

    Everyone is surely friendlier here.

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    Re: Nice to be back in civilisation....

    hmm that's one of the ones I had in mind, I do visit there still and find a lot very helpfull but there are particular types that dominate a lot of stuff which is a shame as it's a great resource generally. I recall various things which seem to make a common trend of trying to get people to buy ridiculous equipment or nothing so I know what you mean. Things like someone asked something about 70-200 L f4 only to be told F4 was amateur hour (an amateur was asking) and something about not being real photographers and they were grouped with doctors wives ( I presume they think these are that models only users?) rather than real photographers. Sure the higher end gear is more powerful, flexible, built better but for hobbyists like myself there is a balance where pro level gear becomes underused and overkill not to mention silly budgeting for a hobby.

    Funny thing is many of the least helpful across various forums produce mediocre quality work especially considering the flexibility of the gear they have that amateurs like myself can match (on a good day at least) without breaking a sweat. As Zach Arias says the gear is a tool and if you trust that alone your rubbish photos just become very sharp rubbish photos. I also see those who help a lot with the most patience seem to produce the most stunning work and despite them earning the right to look down on others in a way they never do. Weirdly the converse of what you'd expect.

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    Re: Nice to be back in civilisation....

    I still spend a fair amount of time at Photography on the Net
    POTN and NAPA were my main learning tools in times past...the subspecialties in POTN are very good.

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    Re: Nice to be back in civilisation....

    Well Dedric...so we didn't actually lose you to the losers...

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    Re: Nice to be back in civilisation....

    Quote Originally Posted by davidedric View Post
    I sometimes look around and post on DP Review (DPR). I was over there yesterday, and noticing that the equivalent forum to this was titled "Retouching" suggested that it might be more accurately called "Post Processing", or some such - and got a torrent of intemperate comment.

    Apparently it had been tried before, and people got really really upset, and some even stopped posting, and what we are doing is just making a few fine adjustments as they used to do in wet darkrooms (I wonder what Ansel Adams would have made of that), and that I should have searched the archive to see how much trouble I could stir up, and that I shouldn't make stupid suggestions, and that I should "show what I can do" before rocking the boat..... Sheesh, worse than Luminous Landscape!

    Good job I have a thick skin , and I'm glad to be back here.

    Dave
    It's because of this attitude that I stopped posting on DP Review about a year ago.

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    Re: Nice to be back in civilisation....

    Quote Originally Posted by davidedric View Post
    I sometimes look around and post on DP Review (DPR). I was over there yesterday, and noticing that the equivalent forum to this was titled "Retouching" suggested that it might be more accurately called "Post Processing", or some such - and got a torrent of intemperate comment.

    Apparently it had been tried before, and people got really really upset, and some even stopped posting, and what we are doing is just making a few fine adjustments as they used to do in wet darkrooms (I wonder what Ansel Adams would have made of that), and that I should have searched the archive to see how much trouble I could stir up, and that I shouldn't make stupid suggestions, and that I should "show what I can do" before rocking the boat..... Sheesh, worse than Luminous Landscape!

    Good job I have a thick skin , and I'm glad to be back here.

    Dave
    Wow! they really got mad?

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    davidedric's Avatar
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    Re: Nice to be back in civilisation....

    Wow! they really got mad?
    Some did, some were a bit more rational, and one side thread led to discussion about whether or not to spatulate a cheese sandwich, which kind of lost me I was pretty much amazed that a question about a Forum's name generated more responses than anything else except Lightroom 6 - which is of course a discussion about vapourware

    Dave

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    davidedric's Avatar
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    It gets better and better...

    Purely for amusement. What on earth would you make of this post? In response to my original. Quite extraordinary.

    Titled "How to spot a newbie"

    Dave

    silvershoes wrote:
    Dave Stott wrote:
    I'm new around here, but "retouching" sounds like a term from a long time ago. Since we are mostly now digital, could the forum name be changed to "Post Processing", or sometimes like it?
    Dave
    I'm curious, why do newbies to a group want to change things they obviously don't understand?
    Retouching isn't the same as post processing, Dave. It has a larger scope. Likewise, film was developed and digital is post processed, but one can retouch either or both. (I've done it.)
    When you have more experience you'll understand the nuances and appreciate them. Till then, may I suggest you might find it more profitable to focus more on your own education and less on fixing things that aren't broken to begin with

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    Re: It gets better and better...

    Reading the thread feels like beating my head with a hammer. It is obviously a sensitive subject with a great deal of unknown history. I associate portrait repair with the term and Google seems to agree. Like so many threads in DPReview, it is just not worth the bother. I know you started it but I would recommend a quick and complete exit. It is probably more valuable to be able to visit the forum at your whim and not get dragged into this muck. If the name was actually dropped and then brought back due to the high demand of silvershoes and the like, I would forget about the whole thing. Their energy on this topic will be much greater than yours. Or mine.

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    Re: It gets better and better...

    Quote Originally Posted by davidedric View Post
    I'm curious, why do newbies to a group want to change things they obviously don't understand?
    Retouching isn't the same as post processing, Dave. It has a larger scope. Likewise, film was developed and digital is post processed, but one can retouch either or both. (I've done it.)
    When you have more experience you'll understand the nuances and appreciate them. Till then, may I suggest you might find it more profitable to focus more on your own education and less on fixing things that aren't broken to begin with
    [/INDENT]
    What do I make of it? It's rude and presumptuous! And while I'm a "newbie" (and proud of it) I find his logic flawed, retouching doesn't have a larger scope than "post processing" in my mind. I take post processing to encompass every adjustment from after the shutter goes to printing/displaying.

  19. #19
    davidedric's Avatar
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    Re: It gets better and better...

    It is probably more valuable to be able to visit the forum at your whim and not get dragged into this muck
    Larry, you are absolutely right, of course! Still, a mischievous part of me tempts me to give the mud another stir or two, just to see what other strange creatures are lurking there

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    Re: It gets better and better...

    Quote Originally Posted by davidedric View Post
    [/INDENT]I'm curious, why do newbies to a group want to change things they obviously don't understand?
    Retouching isn't the same as post processing, Dave. It has a larger scope. Likewise, film was developed and digital is post processed, but one can retouch either or both. (I've done it.)
    When you have more experience you'll understand the nuances and appreciate them. Till then, may I suggest you might find it more profitable to focus more on your own education and less on fixing things that aren't broken to begin with
    [/INDENT]
    Many forums are full of this kind of garbage. People post responses like this to make themselves feel superior. To make themselves into something they are not behind the shield of anonymity of the internet.

    I just see self doubt and insecurity.

    I also know this kind of thing will probably never go away.

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