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Thread: Choosing a Camera

  1. #1
    New Member ContemporaryCaveman's Avatar
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    Choosing a Camera

    Hello People,

    I want to start by saying that I am new here, and also new to photography. I never had a camera, but I feel really fascinated about photography.

    So, I'm writing here, hoping that I might get some tips about what camera I could/should buy. Okay...I am quite sure that I want a DSLR one, but I don't know which one. I don't think I need one that is newbie-friendly though. I will try to handle any camera, and read about it until I will be able to use it properly.

    I see many models that appear to be very good—Canon 20D, 450D, 1000D—hence my confusion. The budget is also a 'small' problem. I will try to stretch it as much as I can, but I don't think I will be able to make it more than 500 bucks. I don't know if it's advised, but I can also buy an used camera if needed.


    Any help will be very much appreciated.

  2. #2
    Moderator Manfred M's Avatar
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    Re: Choosing a Camera

    If you are new to photography, how can you be sure that you "need" a DSLR? My first digital camera was a point & shoot, got to a super-zoom and finally got a DSLR some time later (by the way, I have been shooting with a film SLR for most of my life).

    A more expensive camera might not be the best way to go, especially on your limited budget and as a beginner.
    Last edited by Manfred M; 15th October 2013 at 10:50 PM. Reason: typo corrected

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    Re: Choosing a Camera

    Well Eugen welcome to CIC, I am going to guess that you are from the US as you state "500 bucks", one problem is in the future I may not remember that, so if you could go back into setting a give me a general location, I maybe better able to tell where to go that is to spend that 500 bucks.
    As a new shooter you may not have figured out what it is that you want to take shots of and thus shoot everything, hold on there, sit down, think about the things that you like. Make a list as this can help, ie: close up still or fast action or landscapes etc., to let us know to give better answers. If you get into shooting RAW and you will, you will need a program to process those files, the final images is not necessary the one the camera captured but the one the mind envisioned once the processing it done.
    One or two of the items that you will be the difference between the major makes is not that great "true", it not the camera but the person behind it that is the most important piece of equipment "true", and as a added bonus the right camera is the one that feels right in your hands "true"
    Again welcome to CIC

    Cheers:

    Allan

  4. #4

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    Re: Choosing a Camera

    2nd hand and with a kit lens is probably as good a place as any to start.

    20D / 30D would be good.

    Keep in mind that you're going to need a budget for other stuff sooner rather than later though (tripod, flash, other lenses etc).

  5. #5

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    Re: Choosing a Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Colin Southern View Post
    2nd hand and with a kit lens is probably as good a place as any to start.

    Keep in mind that you're going to need a budget for other stuff sooner rather than later though (tripod, flash, other lenses etc).
    Or maybe start with a used Nikon D3100 + 18-55mm lens.
    Still using it to get good shots. Around $450 @Amazon.

    Then, just as Colin said, use the saved money for the other stuff.


  6. #6
    New Member ContemporaryCaveman's Avatar
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    Re: Choosing a Camera

    Thank you everyone for replies!

    Manfred; You're making a point. Maybe I don't know enough to say that I want a DSLR over a point&shoot, but I have tried a compact camera for a week, and I felt that it wasn't enough. True, it might've been my lack of experience, and maybe the camera was cheap, but why wouldn't I choose a camera that have more features/opportunities over one that doesn't?

    Allan; I am from Romania. You are right, as I don't have anything in particular I want to take pictures of. Honestly, I've been thinking about taking close-up pictures of, well, insects, and maybe landscapes. That program that you are talking about—is it called Photoshop?
    If I understand correctly the last part, and if it means that the person matters more than the camera—I believe this is true. But no matter how skilled a person is, I don't think he/she will get good pictures with a cellphone VGA camera. Maybe cameras matter only until an extent, and then the 'skill' makes the difference. That's why I want a decent camera—so I won't have to ask myself if the camera is good enough, but rather ask if I am good enough.

    Colin, Victor: Thank you both for help. Answers like these help me to narrow my searching. Unfortunately, I'm not from US, and I can't really buy anything from Amazon without having to pay outrageous shipping prices.

  7. #7
    Stagecoach's Avatar
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    Re: Choosing a Camera

    Hi Eugen,

    You mention two areas that you would like to take pictures of, insects and landscapes.

    If you are going to opt for a DSLR for insect pictures you ideally need what is called a Macro lens of which the most common give you a magnification ratio of 1:1 and these are not cheap. Something worth looking into for you.

    There are a wide selection of Zoom lenses for all DSLRs and many that cover a large enough focal length that will allow you tackle from such subjects as street photography, portraits, landscape and sport to start with.

    As for software for processing images there are some which are free and will do as a start.

    What I will suggest is that you spend time considering all advice and options before making a choice.

    Grahame

  8. #8
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    Re: Choosing a Camera

    Welcome to CiC. You've come to the right place. Like you and compared to others here I am a beginner. The thought proceses I went through were many but I'll try and put them in writing but in no particular order.
    First of all think about your budget and be realistic.
    Think about your experience and what you think you are capable of and what you want to do.
    A state of the art camera will not necessarily produce better photos.
    There are many P&S cameras on the market that are quite sophisticated, as are bridge cameras. You do not need to think about extra lenses with these cameras.
    There are many Post Processing programs on the market. I use a Linux based operating system so Adobe products are not available to me but Adobe is expensive for a beginner. There are many free or cheaper programs that would be suitable until you have gained more experience.
    For every reply you get here there will be a diferent answer. We are not clones.
    What ever camera you decide to get, enjoy it and the hobby. There will always be help here. I have learned a lot here.

  9. #9
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    Re: Choosing a Camera

    Hi Eugen,

    It would be interesting to hear what you considered the main limitations of the P&S you used were.

    I'll throw in a couple more things that you can think about;

    There is a considerable difference in size and weight between a P&S and a DSLR and everything in between. Is this going to be of a concern to you?

    If you decide to go for a DSLR with interchangeable lenses you need to appreciate that the lenses generally remain with most of us longer than the camera bodies. The reason for this being that camera body technology tends to move forward way faster than lens technology. For this reason once we add another one or two lenses to our collection we tend to then remain with the same manufacturers bodies.

    Grahame

  10. #10
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    Re: Choosing a Camera

    I'm with Manfred, I think with your budget, a dSLR may be too expensive a proposition. While you can certainly find a good used body/lens combination for that, that's gonna be it. And a dSLR gets its versatility from being a camera system. Multiple lenses are typical. Flash is typical. A tripod, a bag, filters--these are all things you end up eventually wanting with an interchangeable lens system. And they all cost. To me, realistically, the cost of outfitting yourself with a basic dSLR system is more like $2000. You can start with $500, and spend over time. But if $500 is your for-all-time budget, then you may have to settle for something a bit more affordable.

    Also, for your two chosen subjects of macros and landscapes, small compact cameras have some advantages over dSLRS.

    P&S cameras have a macro mode. They can shoot macro without any additional equipment. Smaller sensors and smaller lenses lead to larger DoF, and better near-focusing capabilities. dSLRs have big sensors, and big lenses with larger minimum focus distances. The typical 18-55 kit lens that comes with an entry-level dSLR can't focus on anything closer than 25cm. To get closer, you'll need a macro lens, and that's pretty much your entire budget right there. Or more. A single lens can eclipse the cost of the camera. And on top of that, lenses aren't really accessories for the camera body. It's more like the other way around, because the camera is now digital electronics. And like cellphones or computers, you tend to swap them out on a regular basis. The lenses and other gear are typically a more permanent purchase than the camera body.

    With a compact camera, you don't have to worry about a lot of additional gear. It's smaller, lighter, and cheaper, which means hiking or climbing up mountainsides with it to take landscape photos is easier than hauling a full-frame dSLR and a sturdy tripod and two or three lenses with you. Smaller cameras are more discreet--you generally don't get stopped by security guards, or have people getting angry with you for taking their photo the way you might with a dSLR and a telephoto zoom. If you want to street shoot, small is good.

    And while a P&S camera is going to be more limited with fewer features, there are some very capable ones out there with full Manual controls, and RAW capability that you can use to take good images, if you know what you're doing, and how to post-process.

    Choosing a Camera
    Canon Powershot G9. Shot RAW, processed in Lightroom.

    Choosing a Camera
    Canon Powershot S30 (2001 3MP digicam). $7 plastic travel tripod and a bench were used along with the cameras's built-in timer.

    Choosing a Camera
    Canon Powershot S90. Deliberately underexposed to get the silhouette.

    The camera is just a tool. Getting a good image out of one is about learning to use that tool and how to express a vision you have.

    And today, there are P&S cameras with larger sensors than typical P&S cameras, with better high iso performance and faster lenses. I'd suggest looking at the Sony RX-100, and a few more of the "enthusiast compacts"--maybe even some mirrorless cameras--before making up your mind that a dSLR is what you want. There are a lot of other options today if you want "better than a small compact".

    My recommendation if you're bound and determined to go with an interchangeable lens system camera, would be to look for a used Panasonic GX1 micro four-thirds camera (but I'm partial, since I shoot micro four-thirds with a G3). The sensor is smaller than a dSLR's, (2x crop vs. 1.5x crop). But the lenses and cameras are also smaller and lighter. In the US, you can find a used GX1 for around $200-$250. Then add the Panasonic Lumix G 20mm f/1.7 (MkI) lens. It's about $300-$350 used/new. While it doesn't zoom, and it's not quite as wide as an 18-55 kit lens for a dSLR would be for landscape shooting, I think it's wide enough:

    Choosing a Camera

    It's also on a smaller sensor, and wide enough to give you decent close-up capability, if not true macro:

    Choosing a Camera

    And, the f/1.7 gives you good low-light capability and relatively thin DoF if you want it. All things that you probably want a dSLR for. So, you'll have a good walkaround, portrait, landscape, and close-up lens all in one. But you'll have to learn to run around like mad, because it won't zoom. But the image quality on it is pretty darn good. AND it's a pancake lens, so it's very small and inconspicuous.

    However, if you think you're going to be shooting ANY fast action, like sports or wildlife or children , don't go with micro four-thirds. Not just yet. They're not as responsive or fast to lock autofocus as dSLRs at the moment. In that case, consider going with a used Canon body, and the EF 40mm f/2.8 STM. Mostly for the same reasons, although the close-up capability and speed won't be as good.

  11. #11

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    Re: Choosing a Camera

    For 500 Bucks you can get an antiquated beat-up DSLR ffrom the Ark whereas if you go for a DSLR-LIKE camera and a close-up lens you will be well on your way with a flexible and capable camera ... my choice was first Nikon but subsequently went to Panasonic and have stayed with them since. I would look for something such as the FZ range and preferable the 'large FZ' rather than the 'Compact FZ' .... my final choice in this field which maybe is in your budget at UKP222 was the FZ50 and I continue to keep a couple though I have largely moved on to Micro Four Thirds which I am pretty sure is out of your budget. edit .. I checked and found I could be wrong there.
    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Panasonic-DM...panasonic+fz50

    The point between the DSLR and the DSLR-Like is that to be flexible the DSLR needs a lot of expensive extras whereas with
    the DSLR-Like you have it all in the one camera and apart from the CU lens you should not need anything more. It has imagae stabilisation which largely reduced the needd for a tripod and one can make a monopod out of a broomstick and frequently with eyes open you will find something to sit the camera on when you need stability beyond what the camera provides.
    Talk of a DSLR and macro lens on your budget is quite amusing [ sorry Grahame but it is ]
    I found the FZ50 quite a fast camera to focus and when you have restrictions with your gear you learn to work around them like limiting yourself situations where you can anticpate what is going to happen and get the camera ready .... in a similar manner I rarely used other than 100 ISO for image quality reasons so action in poor light os OUT but there are so many other fish in the sea it is simply not worth getting in a tiss about that. If you support the camera properly the results are as good as in bright sunlight.
    You will find that people here are completely obsessed with the DSLR and cannot see past them, though there are a few of us who have used or do use other types and appreciate the limits of a budget which such cameras can meet.
    If you browse through my website you will find a lot of varied subjects covered with the DSLR-Like camera although lrecent are MFT. http://jcuknz-photos.com/index.html
    Last edited by jcuknz; 16th October 2013 at 04:48 AM.

  12. #12

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    Re: Choosing a Camera

    In quoting that link I am assuming Romania is in the EU and stuff listed by Amazon UK will not attract those horendous import duties I hope

    I think 500 US$ is UKP333

    You also mention 'Photoshop' which in addition to being the most expensive editing programme around is commonly used to describe all editing. There are numerous free editors of varying ability and some which cost a fraction of PS. Adobe dislike people using it generically but that is probably a lost cause
    Capable editors which are free to download would be GIMP and Paint dot Net though there are a lot which perform lesser tasks though I believe it is desirable that a persons knowledge of the camera and the editor should progress in tandem to get the most out of digital.
    Depending on your computer system Windows or Mac or ?? some programmes will not work with them.
    Last edited by jcuknz; 16th October 2013 at 04:20 AM.

  13. #13
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    Re: Choosing a Camera

    I don't know the pricing on cameras in Romania but, as Colin mentioned a 20D or preferably a 30D is certainly a very capable camera.

  14. #14

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    Re: Choosing a Camera

    I am sure that Kathy would join me in reccomending this MFT camera to you as we both have used them, Kathy still does and I moved on to a GH model .....
    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Panasonic-DM...amera+and+lens
    You will need to find some extra for a storage card to fit in the camera to record the files on.
    Unfortunately it is a bit limited in photographing small creepy crawlies. Amazon USA does list Auto extension tubes to fit between camera and lens Amazon UK does not and the lens the camera comes with is not suitable or capable of being used with the cheap extension tubes without electronic coupling between camera and lens.

    On the other hand you could use a CU lens with it at the 42mm zoom setting for a reasonable job, nothing like bug-eye but whole-of-bug quite possible. The MFT have a x2 crop facor which means the 42mm lens gives you the same Angle of View as an 84mm lens would on a full frame or 35mm film camera. I am using a 140mm lens and need a 4 dioptre lens to do what I used to do with the FZ50 and a two dioptre lens.

    The main point about all these cameras is that they have fully automatic modes which helps to get reasonably good results from the start and have manual over-rides for when you learn to use them.

  15. #15

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    Re: Choosing a Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by rpcrowe View Post
    I don't know the pricing on cameras in Romania but, as Colin mentioned a 20D or preferably a 30D is certainly a very capable camera.
    It was a 20D that more or less got me started. Still have fond memories of the old girl!

    Choosing a Camera


    Choosing a Camera

    Choosing a Camera


    Choosing a Camera

  16. #16
    Stagecoach's Avatar
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    Re: Choosing a Camera

    Hi JC

    Quote Originally Posted by jcuknz View Post
    Talk of a DSLR and macro lens on your budget is quite amusing [ sorry Grahame but it is ]
    To put my comment into context so that it is not confused the purpose of it was to make Eugen aware that for macro work with a DSLR a separate lens would be required that is something that must be considered, and part of that consideration would naturally include budget, prioritys and time frames

    .................................................. .................................................. ........................
    "" Hi Eugen,

    You mention two areas that you would like to take pictures of, insects and landscapes.

    If you are going to opt for a DSLR for insect pictures you ideally need what is called a Macro lens of which the most common give you a magnification ratio of 1:1 and these are not cheap. Something worth looking into for you. ""
    .................................................. .................................................. .........................

    Rather than to suggest or promote a certain type or model of camera/lens I was attempting to assist Eugen's understanding of a DSLR due to being a 'newbie' (not my words) in case there was a possibility that it was assumed any lens could be used for macro.

    Grahame

  17. #17
    New Member ContemporaryCaveman's Avatar
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    Re: Choosing a Camera

    Oh wonderful! It seems that I have received way more answers than I thought I would. Thank you. I don't even know how to start. While I appreciate all your advices, I feel bad because I can't entirely understand some of them due to my lack of knowledge. I think I should've been reading more before asking here. I didn't know what macro lens are, but after reading a little about them, they seem to be just what I want.

    Well, P&S also appears to be much better than I though, but I will be a little stubborn here. While I appreciate that they can be easier and friendlier, I would really like a DSLR. After all, most photographers who started with P&S ended up with DSLR, right? This is my main reason why I'm a little reluctant about P&S.
    Even if P&S can have a better ratio price/quality compared with a cheap DSLR, I will stick with DSLR and see where it will get me.
    Weight is no problem.

    I can stretch my budget to 1000$. 500$ is not a lifetime budget, but better to say a starting budget. Nonetheless, if I will buy some fancy lens and expensive equipment, I will probably not be able to take full advantage of every feature, because I won't understand them (probably). Just like giving a book to someone who can't read. So, wouldn't it be better to buy some decent lens and then after I will get used to everything, I will maybe find out what I actually need, and start from there?

    However, Colin, those are some wicked pictures. What kind of lens have you used?

    Used DSLR cameras appear to be quite cheap here. So, I have these options:

    Canon 20D Body+card+neck strap+batter/recharger at 125$
    Canon 30D Body+18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 lens 300$ but I think I can get it at 250$
    Canon 450D Body at 200$
    Last edited by ContemporaryCaveman; 16th October 2013 at 08:43 AM.

  18. #18
    Stagecoach's Avatar
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    Re: Choosing a Camera

    Hi Eugen,

    Pleased you have found the responses useful. If there are things in the replies you do not understand all you need to do is ask, there are many that will help straight away.

    I will not advise on the Canon bodies as I am not familiar with them but you will get advice soon. As two of these are body only have you looked at what lenses are available and their cost?

    Talking about taking advantage of every feature many that go through the learning curve and then take photography seriously tend to stop using many of the features on the camera and go back to just using the basics.

    Grahame

  19. #19

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    Re: Choosing a Camera

    Hi Eugen,

    A good second hand camera with as many features as your money can buy.
    The more features it has the longer you wil be able to use it before upgrading.

    Once you get hooked on this “hobby” you are doomed to upgrade sooner or later.

    PS. Just to fill you in: I bought a used Nikon D200 from a guy who emigrated to Aussie land with 2 lenses a flash and a tripod for less than $800us. The D200 might be outdated but it still has more features than most entry level DSLR's.
    Last edited by AB26; 16th October 2013 at 01:11 PM.

  20. #20

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    Re: Choosing a Camera

    Eugen,

    My 2c.

    Stick to your gut instinct about the DSLR,

    You will learn more about making good images with a DSLR than with a P&S.. You will likely crack it with your self plenty of times too but you will get to learn a lot more from those mistakes.

    There are some pretty compelling P&S images posted above but I suspect these images were made by people that already understand exposure, ISO, aperture, composition, post etc.

    Robbie.

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