Results 1 to 19 of 19

Thread: WB: Grey card useless in Concerts?

  1. #1

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Lake Ambulalakaw, Mt. Pulag, Benguet
    Posts
    1,026
    Real Name
    Victor Nimitz

    WB: Grey card useless in Concerts?

    After a series of concert shoots for experience and fun, I noticed, whatever WB I set, it eventually, did not matter.

    I found out ambient White Balance was determined by the colored studio lights and how they were manipulated by the stage director.

    These are some shots from the recent concert I went to at the Roxy Theater, Sunset Strip, Hollywood last Monday, 23Sep2013.

    WB: Grey card useless in Concerts?
    Reddish


    WB: Grey card useless in Concerts?
    blue lights


    WB: Grey card useless in Concerts?
    orange


    WB: Grey card useless in Concerts?
    red - blue - "white"


    WB: Grey card useless in Concerts?
    green


    WB: Grey card useless in Concerts?
    I figured , must be those array of colored lights that made the "ambient light".

    I guess, I'll just set WB to auto in future concerts,.

    Thanks
    Last edited by nimitzbenedicto; 26th September 2013 at 05:27 PM.

  2. #2

    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Provence, France
    Posts
    906
    Real Name
    Remco

    Re: WB: Grey card useless in Concerts?

    This is typically one of those situation where you do not want a 'correct' white balance (assuming such a thing would even be possible):
    the colour of the light is what makes the atmosphere of the shot.
    I usually just select incandescent WB and adjust to taste (if needed) in post.

    And nice images, I particularly like the 2nd shot.

    Remco

  3. #3

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    SE Michigan
    Posts
    4,443
    Real Name
    wm c boyer

    Re: WB: Grey card useless in Concerts?

    Shooting in RAW allows the photographer that artistic choice,
    whereas jpeg give that choice to the camera's software.

  4. #4
    Moderator GrumpyDiver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Ottawa, Canada
    Posts
    12,357
    Real Name
    Manfred Mueller

    Re: WB: Grey card useless in Concerts?

    Nicely said, this is a mixed light situation, so the right colour balance is whatever you decide it is. I can't think of any camera that would be able to work out the colour temperature of multiple gelled spotlights. Shooting raw will give you more latitude in how you present the image, but the colours are going to be so funky, it will be hard to argue whether it is what you saw when shooting or not.

  5. #5
    Shadowman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    WNY
    Posts
    29,213
    Real Name
    John

    Re: WB: Grey card useless in Concerts?

    Very nice images. What type of RGB or CMYK values are you getting for the skintones?

  6. #6

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Lake Ambulalakaw, Mt. Pulag, Benguet
    Posts
    1,026
    Real Name
    Victor Nimitz

    Re: WB: Grey card useless in Concerts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowman View Post
    Very nice images. What type of RGB or CMYK values are you getting for the skintones?
    Hi John,

    Camera setting = sRGB. ViewNX2 = sRGB.
    Picture Control = Standard. WB = auto

    Used viewNX2 for conversion/downsizing from NEF to jpg.
    No editing done. sooc. Same for all images. Did this for WB study only.

    Thanks

    WB: Grey card useless in Concerts?
    Note the various colored stage lights above.
    Last edited by nimitzbenedicto; 26th September 2013 at 06:46 PM.

  7. #7
    Boatman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Windham NH, USA
    Posts
    349
    Real Name
    Homer

    Re: WB: Grey card useless in Concerts?

    So who was the band? Did they put on a good show?

  8. #8

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Lake Ambulalakaw, Mt. Pulag, Benguet
    Posts
    1,026
    Real Name
    Victor Nimitz

    Re: WB: Grey card useless in Concerts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boatman View Post
    So who was the band? Did they put on a good show?
    Yes. shooting live bands really a blast of colors.

    It's all RAW. ( pun intended hehehe......)

    I think they're called "LedZepAgain".

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Saw your Blues Summit and New Orleans Night Life.. Cool series... Thanks

  9. #9
    Shadowman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    WNY
    Posts
    29,213
    Real Name
    John

    Re: WB: Grey card useless in Concerts?

    Quote Originally Posted by nimitzbenedicto View Post
    Hi John,

    Camera setting = sRGB. ViewNX2 = sRGB.
    Picture Control = Standard. WB = auto

    Used viewNX2 for conversion/downsizing from NEF to jpg.
    No editing done. sooc. Same for all images. Did this for WB study only.

    Thanks

    WB: Grey card useless in Concerts?
    Note the various colored stage lights above.
    Victor,

    When you select info and hover the mouse over the skintones are they neutral, are they influenced by the light sources?

  10. #10

    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    17,662
    Real Name
    Have a guess :)

    Re: WB: Grey card useless in Concerts?

    On a side note, if you ever see the band again, can you tell those dudes to button up their shirts - get a haircut - and GET A REAL JOB!!!


  11. #11

    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Dunedin New Zealand
    Posts
    2,697
    Real Name
    J stands for John

    Re: WB: Grey card useless in Concerts?

    Heard a Beetles record tonight and thought " Were they the start of mindless noise as opposed to music? "

  12. #12

    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Lincolnshire,UK
    Posts
    148

    Re: WB: Grey card useless in Concerts?

    Quote Originally Posted by jcuknz View Post
    Heard a Beetles record tonight and thought " Were they the start of mindless noise as opposed to music? "
    Ha,ha. My grandfather called their music 'static interference' ...

  13. #13

    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Moravia, Costa Rica
    Posts
    9
    Real Name
    Mau VC

    Re: WB: Grey card useless in Concerts?

    Interesting situation.

    I have a question about the RAWs. Have you try to manipulate the WB in another software? I am thinking LR, Dxo Optics, Capture Pro. I am curious because sometimes, in my tiny experience, I can change the WB to one that works for me in a specific shot and with that in mind maybe you can set up each shot to match certain base WB/colors...

  14. #14

    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Sydney. AU
    Posts
    463
    Real Name
    Robbie.

    Re: WB: Grey card useless in Concerts?

    Victor,

    The lights used to light that stage are all Par 64s as far as I can see. They are a tungsten lamp usually pretty close to 3200K. These lamps will all have the same source no matter what gel/filter the Lighting Director decided to put in front of them therefore they will all have the same colour temperature.

    Setting the white balance to 3200K will give you more accurate control of the colours when the lamps are at 100%. This particular type of lamp though is dim-able so colour temp will vary widely during the show but it is best to start with 3200 WB so as you get a good starting point.

    If the lamps on stage were non dim-able like most modern stage lighting fixtures are (LED excluded) you would not have this issue as the lights output is controlled by mechanically flagging the optical path not reducing the power to the globe, the result being constant colour temp but varying intensity.




    EDIT.
    I just noticed 3 x MAC250s on the floor in the last shot these are the type of lamp I was talking about being non dim, as you can see in that last image the three lamp are at varying intensity yet the blue light being emitted by them is pretty much the same across the three lights as there is no shift in colour temperature with the mechanical flagging.

    Robbie.
    Last edited by Rob Ekins; 3rd October 2013 at 06:47 AM.

  15. #15

    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Dunedin New Zealand
    Posts
    2,697
    Real Name
    J stands for John

    Re: WB: Grey card useless in Concerts?

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveF View Post
    Ha,ha. My grandfather called their music 'static interference' ...
    Was he trying to restart the War[s] of the Roses ? I assumne you both live east of the Penines

  16. #16

    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Lincolnshire,UK
    Posts
    148

    Re: WB: Grey card useless in Concerts?

    Quote Originally Posted by jcuknz View Post
    Was he trying to restart the War[s] of the Roses ? I assumne you both live east of the Penines
    My Grandfather was a 'light the blue touchpaper and stand well back' sort of person. Don't think he ever had an agenda.

  17. #17

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Lake Ambulalakaw, Mt. Pulag, Benguet
    Posts
    1,026
    Real Name
    Victor Nimitz

    Re: WB: Grey card useless in Concerts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sortarivs View Post
    Interesting situation.

    I have a question about the RAWs. Have you try to manipulate the WB in another software? I am thinking LR, Dxo Optics, Capture Pro. I am curious because sometimes, in my tiny experience, I can change the WB to one that works for me in a specific shot and with that in mind maybe you can set up each shot to match certain base WB/colors...
    Hi Mau,

    Ok. I'll test your recom and see if it comes out alright next time.

    Thanks for the tip.

  18. #18

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Lake Ambulalakaw, Mt. Pulag, Benguet
    Posts
    1,026
    Real Name
    Victor Nimitz

    Re: WB: Grey card useless in Concerts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Ekins View Post
    Victor,

    The lights used to light that stage are all Par 64s as far as I can see. They are a tungsten lamp usually pretty close to 3200K. These lamps will all have the same source no matter what gel/filter the Lighting Director decided to put in front of them therefore they will all have the same colour temperature.

    Setting the white balance to 3200K will give you more accurate control of the colours when the lamps are at 100%. This particular type of lamp though is dim-able so colour temp will vary widely during the show but it is best to start with 3200 WB so as you get a good starting point.

    If the lamps on stage were non dim-able like most modern stage lighting fixtures are (LED excluded) you would not have this issue as the lights output is controlled by mechanically flagging the optical path not reducing the power to the globe, the result being constant colour temp but varying intensity.

    EDIT.
    I just noticed 3 x MAC250s on the floor in the last shot these are the type of lamp I was talking about being non dim, as you can see in that last image the three lamp are at varying intensity yet the blue light being emitted by them is pretty much the same across the three lights as there is no shift in colour temperature with the mechanical flagging.

    Robbie.
    Hi Robbie,

    Wow, great post. Learned a lot from you. Especially about different stage lighting. Also, colour temperature does stay constant although different intensity.

    I will definitely start off with your advice "3200 WB" in the next concert .


    it is best to start with 3200 WB so as you get a good starting point.
    Thanks Robbie......

  19. #19

    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Sydney. AU
    Posts
    463
    Real Name
    Robbie.

    Re: WB: Grey card useless in Concerts?

    Glad I could help Victor.

    One thing I would add is that you are most likely to get better shots during ballads as these are generally set up lighting wise to be more static and moody, less of the chasing flashing lights stuff.

    Set yourself up for a nice shot of the lead singer, he will usually have some contrasting static backlights framing him and you will have more time to adjust you camera setting as the lighting states will be more constant.

    Robbie.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •