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Thread: Dancer

  1. #1
    Shadowman's Avatar
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    Dancer

    DancerDancer

    f/5.6m ISO 450, 1/500sec, 270mm

    Comments welcome.

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    Re: Dancer

    Prefer the colour to the Mono here John. I think it's because the skin tones seem a little heavy in the B/W version. Worth working on though.

  3. #3
    Shadowman's Avatar
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    Re: Dancer

    Quote Originally Posted by John 2 View Post
    Prefer the colour to the Mono here John. I think it's because the skin tones seem a little heavy in the B/W version. Worth working on though.
    Thanks for the comments John.

  4. #4
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    Re: Dancer

    Beautiful photo. I prefer the colour but I also like the B&W.

  5. #5
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    Re: Dancer

    Quote Originally Posted by Christina S View Post
    Beautiful photo. I prefer the colour but I also like the B&W.
    Thanks Christina.

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    Re: Dancer

    I'd go black and white. But I'd suggest cropping closer - perhaps to the middle of her sleeve from the bottom, and take a little off the left as well. That gives her some space to look into, concentrates one's focus, and removes a bit of the background. I would also suggest lightening her skin tones somewhat, and possibly burning the background. She deserves to pop off the screen.

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    Re: Dancer

    Quote Originally Posted by RustBeltRaw View Post
    I'd go black and white. But I'd suggest cropping closer - perhaps to the middle of her sleeve from the bottom, and take a little off the left as well. That gives her some space to look into, concentrates one's focus, and removes a bit of the background. I would also suggest lightening her skin tones somewhat, and possibly burning the background. She deserves to pop off the screen.
    Lex,

    Thanks for the comments. I give it a shot.

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    Administrator Manfred M's Avatar
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    Re: Dancer

    Tough call on this one, but I think I prefer the coloured version with the vibrant colours. Other than the bystander's arm, the colours separate the image from the background.

    The skin tones are definitely too dark in the B&W, but the background is really very much in the same tonal range as the dancer's skin, so she doesn't "pop". Lightening the skin will also lighten the background. Isolate the dancer from the background and either dodge or burn like crazy to give some tonal separation and you will have something that works better.

    I would be tempted to do a major crop, like Lex suggests. Head and shoulders for sure; I would crop above her elbow.
    Last edited by Manfred M; 14th August 2013 at 01:18 AM. Reason: typo

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    Re: Dancer

    I saw a video recently put out by Adorama that suggested not to crop the arm below the elbow. Also this photo looks like the model only has one arm.

    Bruce

  10. #10
    Administrator Manfred M's Avatar
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    Re: Dancer

    Quote Originally Posted by Digital View Post
    I saw a video recently put out by Adorama that suggested not to crop the arm below the elbow. Also this photo looks like the model only has one arm.

    Bruce
    What I was taught was not just the elbow but any joint. Generally good practice is no NOT crop through any joint, and it is preferable to crop above the joint, so the same guideline applies to knees, wrists, ankles as well. Doing this apparently gives a smoother, "nicer" look.

    I agree, but don't know if I think this way because of what I was told or because that's what my eyes tell me too

  11. #11
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    Re: Dancer

    Quote Originally Posted by GrumpyDiver View Post
    What I was taught was not just the elbow but any joint. Generally good practice is no NOT crop through any joint, and it is preferable to crop above the joint, so the same guideline applies to knees, wrists, ankles as well. Doing this apparently gives a smoother, "nicer" look.

    I agree, but don't know if I think this way because of what I was told or because that's what my eyes tell me too
    Manfred, the video also mentioned not to show only one arm in a 3/4 shot. In this regard, it is easy for one to point out so called posing errors when I do not know the circumstances that John was shooting under.

    Bruce

  12. #12
    Administrator Manfred M's Avatar
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    Re: Dancer

    Quote Originally Posted by Digital View Post
    Manfred, the video also mentioned not to show only one arm in a 3/4 shot. In this regard, it is easy for one to point out so called posing errors when I do not know the circumstances that John was shooting under.

    Bruce
    Now you are getting into guidelines that I have trouble with. While I understand the rationale as to why some people will say that, that one I can't agree with. In this shot the body is fully in profile, although the head is not. I find that is part of the strength of this shot.

  13. #13
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    Re: Dancer

    Quote Originally Posted by GrumpyDiver View Post
    Now you are getting into guidelines that I have trouble with. While I understand the rationale as to why some people will say that, that one I can't agree with. In this shot the body is fully in profile, although the head is not. I find that is part of the strength of this shot.
    I forgot to mention that this video was about posing in a formal portrait session. In an apparent impromptu shot such as this one appears to be I do not think you can apply the same "guidelines".

    Bruce

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    Administrator Manfred M's Avatar
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    Re: Dancer

    Quote Originally Posted by Digital View Post
    I forgot to mention that this video was about posing in a formal portrait session. In an apparent impromptu shot such as this one appears to be I do not think you can apply the same "guidelines".

    Bruce
    First of all, that pose is fairly typical of a formal portrait and is often a mostly frontal shot (usuallly a bit from the side to slim the figure). I suspect what the video is saying it would be a bit odd and unbalanced to chop one arm off in this type of a shot. The rule is totally bogus:

    Here is a link to some of Yousef Karsh's portraits. He is considered by many to be the greatest portrait photographer of all time. Notice chopped off arms and missing arms in some of these very well known works..

    http://121clicks.com/inspirations/th...y-yousuf-karsh

    I think you will find that he has broken just about every rule written about portraiture when you look at these. And they all work....

  15. #15
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    Re: Dancer

    Thank you for sharing the link. The photographs Yousef Karsh made are fantastic photographs. I could learn a bunch from studying his work.


    Bruce

  16. #16
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    Re: Dancer

    Just a thought here...aren't rules made to be broken??

    Now, back to the photos...I do like the color version better but I would love to see the Mono with the changes mentioned above. Then I might just change my mind. Nice work John.

  17. #17
    Administrator Manfred M's Avatar
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    Re: Dancer

    Quote Originally Posted by Digital View Post
    Thank you for sharing the link. The photographs Yousef Karsh made are fantastic photographs. I could learn a bunch from studying his work.


    Bruce
    Bruce - now you are onto something. I spent a lot of time going through images by the great photographers (and not so great one's whose work I like); not to copy them but to try to reverse-engineer the shots to figure out how they were taken. I find that influenced me a lot more than any course I have taken.

  18. #18
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    Re: Dancer

    Quote Originally Posted by GrumpyDiver View Post
    Tough call on this one, but I think I prefer the coloured version with the vibrant colours. Other than the bystander's arm, the colours separate the image from the background.

    The skin tones are definitely too dark in the B&W, but the background is really very much in the same tonal range as the dancer's skin, so she doesn't "pop". Lightening the skin will also lighten the background. Isolate the dancer from the background and either dodge or burn like crazy to give some tonal separation and you will have something that works better.

    I would be tempted to do a major crop, like Lex suggests. Head and shoulders for sure; I would crop above her elbow.
    Thanks Manfred.

    Regarding the skin tones, I had the same comments about another image converted to black and white. In converting I used PSEs convert to black and white, I did a levels adjustment to tone down the lights, no adjustments to the midtones.

  19. #19
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    Re: Dancer

    Quote Originally Posted by plumcrak View Post
    Just a thought here...aren't rules made to be broken??

    Now, back to the photos...I do like the color version better but I would love to see the Mono with the changes mentioned above. Then I might just change my mind. Nice work John.
    Thanks for the comments Jon.

  20. #20
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    Re: Dancer

    Quote Originally Posted by Digital View Post
    Manfred, the video also mentioned not to show only one arm in a 3/4 shot. In this regard, it is easy for one to point out so called posing errors when I do not know the circumstances that John was shooting under.

    Bruce
    Like BIF, she was constantly moving. I'll have to check my before and after shots to see if more of her was captured.

    On a side note, I was viewing a documentary about photography "Contacts:Conceptual Photography" and a few of the photographers (film naturally) said that one should never show their proof sheets, it reveals too much about the photographer.

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