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Thread: Nikon's Picture Control - JPEG (Yes) RAW (No) ?

  1. #1

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    Nikon's Picture Control - JPEG (Yes) RAW (No) ?

    Hi fellow photographer, goodday to everyone.

    Just hour ago, someone asked me a question which has left my mouth opened big with no answer.
    It is :- The Nikon's (in-camera) Picture Control, does it apply both to JPEG and RAW too ?

    I think it only applies to JPEG but not RAW.....

    I am doubtful too.

    Anyone can clarify ?

    TQ.

  2. #2
    dubaiphil's Avatar
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    Re: Nikon's Picture Control - JPEG (Yes) RAW (No) ?

    Just .jpeg

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    Re: Nikon's Picture Control - JPEG (Yes) RAW (No) ?

    I think it's a "No" then "Yes" answer. ( Given we're using ViewNX2. )

    Does it apply to RAW- meaning does Picture Control change /alter the NEF(RAW) file itself - ? Answer: No.

    Answer:Yes. Because when we open that certain NEF file/image in ViewNX2, the in-camera chosen Picture Control is applied to the NEF/RAW image. Thus, viewNX2 shows the altered image, not the original NEF/RAW file/image.

    This is one reason I like to use viewNX2 because just need to do little editing and sometimes, go straight to jpeg conversion and do more editing in GIMP.

    Unlike in LR, when we open an image/file NEF, it more or less shows the original NEF image with no in-camera selected Picture Control.

    HTH
    Last edited by nimitzbenedicto; 5th August 2013 at 07:25 AM.

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    Re: Nikon's Picture Control - JPEG (Yes) RAW (No) ?

    Page 353-4 of the D800 manual lists the adjustments that can be used if you decide to invoke the NEF(RAW) to JPEG copy processing options. So they have obviously not been applied to the RAW file.

    So your heading is 100% correct.

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    Re: Nikon's Picture Control - JPEG (Yes) RAW (No) ?

    Quote Originally Posted by pnodrog View Post
    Page 353-4 of the D800 manual lists the adjustments that can be used if you decide to invoke the NEF(RAW) to JPEG copy processing options. So they have obviously not been applied to the RAW file.
    an
    So your heading is 100% correct.
    HI,

    Just want to make sure, so even if you open a NEF image in viewNX2, no selected in-camera picture control is applied to the NEF image.
    (using Nikon D300/200/3100/5100)

    Thanks.

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    Re: Nikon's Picture Control - JPEG (Yes) RAW (No) ?

    I do not use NX2 but I assume it will depend on how you have set it up. I understand the white balance and many of the other parameters are in a header or the EXIF section of the RAW file and it will depend on how you configure the conversion software as to whether or not they are used as the default parameters when opening the file.

    For Lightroom I open the RAW file essentially unprocessed apart from auto white balance applied then chose what pre-set I will apply depending on the type of photography I have been doing. Must admit I do not worry to much about the detailed theory but rather just sort out a work flow that gives me the control and results I want.

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    Re: Nikon's Picture Control - JPEG (Yes) RAW (No) ?

    Hi Albert,

    Victor has the answer. Depending on the software you use to do the RAW conversion. ViewNX2 and Capture NX2 will read in camera settings and render the image with Picture Control settings.

    So it is a yes and a no. Using Nikon software – yes. Using other software – probably no.

    Have you tried shooting a B&W image in RAW and convert it to colour?

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    Re: Nikon's Picture Control - JPEG (Yes) RAW (No) ?

    A bit absent minded above - it is the associated XMP file that holds some of the additional information. Photoshop will open the RAW NEF file without the XMP file being present and when the image is saved as a photoshop file it also generates a XMP file. When opening the NEF file the typical EXIF information is available including white balance used at exposure.

    I think the main point is regardless of what defaults are applied to the RAW file when opening they can all be adjusted and fine tuned.
    Last edited by pnodrog; 5th August 2013 at 11:27 AM.

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    Re: Nikon's Picture Control - JPEG (Yes) RAW (No) ?

    To confirm what I understood I opened a NEF file using photoshop and changed the RAW conversion step so the white balance and exposure was way out. I then proceeded to the photoshop edit stage and did not save. I reopened the NEF file and the way out adjustments were present but could be adjusted back to normal but I cancelled without applying the change. I then deleted the XMP file and when I opened the NEF file and the original white balance etc were back.

    Obviously all changes were held in the XMP file but the original information was retained in the NEF RAW file. Confirmed by looking at the file time info. as the NEF file was never altered but the XMP was.

    As I said earlier the only thing I really worry about is that I can get the results with the flexibility/control I want. The rest is semantics.

    P.S. The XMP file is generated by the Adobe software and only saves the changes done when opening the RAW file.
    Last edited by pnodrog; 6th August 2013 at 05:19 AM.

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    Re: Nikon's Picture Control - JPEG (Yes) RAW (No) ?

    TQ so much guys, for all the feed back. Appreciated with thanks.

    Here are my understandings. However, If I am wrong again, please do correct me, ok?

    Since a raw NEF file is a lossless compressed format, the Picture Control will have no effect on it. It is only when we process its DNG in ACR interface, we can alter it (the Picture Control) inside the Basic Panel > Camera Calibration > Camera Profile.

    However, as we understood that even when we shoot in RAW, we can review our image with the camera's monitor. This image review in actual fact is generated automatically by the camera's software in a JPEG format and hence, the Picture Control takes effect here.

    To conclude : Picture Control has no effect to a RAW file, but will present when we review the RAW image in-camera or under ViewNX2.

    Any further confirmation from you guys ?

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    Re: Nikon's Picture Control - JPEG (Yes) RAW (No) ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Sim View Post
    However, as we understood that even when we shoot in RAW, we can review our image with the camera's monitor. This image review in actual fact is generated automatically by the camera's software in a JPEG format and hence, the Picture Control takes effect here.
    Hi Albert

    This is certainly true for my Canon and I think it would also apply to Nikon. The in-camera histogram and highlight blinkies are also based on this preview jpeg.

    As a matter of interest, a relatively small jpeg is also embedded in the raw file (possibly the same one used for in-camera preview).

    Dave

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    Re: Nikon's Picture Control - JPEG (Yes) RAW (No) ?

    If you shoot jpeg the answer is simply yes, picture control effects are "burned in".

    If you shoot RAW/NEF and use Nikon software for editing, printing, etc, then the picture controls set in camera affect the output either viewed on the monitor or printed and will be "burned in" to any tiff/jpeg files output and saved.

    If you shoot RAW/NEF and use non-Nikon software to view/edit the files, picture controls have no effect on what you see/print.

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    Re: Nikon's Picture Control - JPEG (Yes) RAW (No) ?

    One more thing: when you edit using the camera software, the full array of camera picture controls are available to you. The one you used in your shot will present itself first, but you have access to all the other Nikon picture controls, too. In Adobe, the original picture control that you shot with is completely lost and the assorted Adobe picture controls are not identical to the similarly named Nikon (or Canon) picture controls. Since I use Adobe (Elements 9), it is up to me to use the variety of available settings (particularly wb and tint) to create or recreate the colors that I want. Other than the saved raw files that I could potentially process in View NX2, I have no real connection to Nikon colors using Adobe.

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    Re: Nikon's Picture Control - JPEG (Yes) RAW (No) ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Albert Sim View Post
    Hi fellow photographer, goodday to everyone.

    Just hour ago, someone asked me a question which has left my mouth opened big with no answer.
    It is :- The Nikon's (in-camera) Picture Control, does it apply both to JPEG and RAW too ?

    I think it only applies to JPEG but not RAW.....

    I am doubtful too.

    Anyone can clarify ?

    TQ.

    I have noticed that CNX2 does not check the Picture Control edit step by default. It shows SD Unchanged but if you click the check box the histogram at the bottom changes as though the update is now being applied.

    D7100 lossless comp RAW (14-bit)
    CNX2 2.4.5

    Dave

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    Re: Nikon's Picture Control - JPEG (Yes) RAW (No) ?

    Welcome to CiC and to this old thread, Dave. I'm a longtime user of CNX2 and it is still my primary editing software that is used on 100% of my images. There is some well-intended though incorrect information in the thread that I'm not going to bother to correct. I do want to help, though, with your thinking.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveLewis View Post
    I have noticed that CNX2 does not check the Picture Control edit step by default. It shows SD Unchanged
    If I understand you correctly, the display in the software is misleading. The "unchanged" selection in the dropdown menu that you're referencing doesn't mean that the Picture Control isn't being implemented. It means that the Picture Control is being implemented as configured in the camera, rather than changed. As an example, I always shoot with the camera configured to use the Standard Picture Control except that I have also configured it to use a sharpening value of 7 (not the default Standard sharpening value). So, when I load a RAW file in Capture NX2, the program automatically assigns all of the Standard Picture Control settings configured in my camera including my custom sharpening value.

    Make sense?

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    Re: Nikon's Picture Control - JPEG (Yes) RAW (No) ?

    If I understand you correctly, the display in the software is misleading. The "unchanged" selection in the dropdown menu that you're referencing doesn't mean that the Picture Control isn't being implemented. It means that the Picture Control is being implemented as configured in the camera, rather than changed. As an example, I always shoot with the camera configured to use the Standard Picture Control except that I have also configured it to use a sharpening value of 7 (not the default Standard sharpening value). So, when I load a RAW file in Capture NX2, the program automatically assigns all of the Standard Picture Control settings configured in my camera including my custom sharpening value.

    Make sense?[/QUOTE]

    My point is that if the Picture Control has been applied then you would expect the edit step to be checked as all other in-camera controls are. Not only is it not checked but when you do check it the histogram changes. If it were just a case of the step being wrongly shown as unchecked then checking it should not cause the histogram to change. In my case I was using the Standard Picture Control unchanged.

    Dave

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    Re: Nikon's Picture Control - JPEG (Yes) RAW (No) ?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveLewis View Post
    My point is that if the Picture Control has been applied then you would expect the edit step to be checked as all other in-camera controls are.
    All of the rectangular boxes are automatically checked but not all of the radio dots. The Picture Control has a radio dot as its indicator, not the rectangular box. As an example, the white balance, which is indicated by a radio dot, also is not checked even though it is being applied.

    Don't ask my why this is so, as this distinction between rectangular boxes and radio dots and their use doesn't make any sense to me.

    I can't explain why the histogram is changing other than to mention that the display of the histogram has some other quirks which seem to be display issues. That leads me to think that nothing is really changing when you check the radio dot even though the histogram is changing.

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