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Thread: Facebook/Instagram wants to sell your photos with no compensation to you?

  1. #1
    ktuli's Avatar
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    Facebook/Instagram wants to sell your photos with no compensation to you?

    Facebook/Instagram causing a stir...

    http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57...l-your-photos/

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20767537

    I don't use either... and this is why. What total bogus behavior!

    - Bill

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    Re: Facebook/Instagram wants to sell your photos with no compensation to you?

    Will be very interesting to see how it pans out. I suspect that folks are trying to twist it into something it's not though.

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    Re: Facebook/Instagram wants to sell your photos with no compensation to you?

    Not sure. At the same time, I could very well see Facebook using Instagram as their testing ground for new policies. If it doesn't cause enough of a user loss in Instagram, they roll out the same thing on Facebook 6 months later.

    Like I said, don't and won't use either.

    - Bill

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    Re: Facebook/Instagram wants to sell your photos with no compensation to you?

    Yet another reason not to deal with the whole Facebook thing!

    I'm jes' sayin'....

    virginia

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    Re: Facebook/Instagram wants to sell your photos with no compensation to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by drjuice View Post
    Yet another reason not to deal with the whole Facebook thing!

    I'm jes' sayin'....

    virginia
    Facebook has been a god-send to me as a marketing & communication tool. No problems or complaints about them what-so-ever.

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    Re: Facebook/Instagram wants to sell your photos with no compensation to you?

    Facebook is a fun/easy way to share with friends and family. Since they changed policy on business pages, if you don't opt in you don't see updates, some businesses are seeing drops in activity. You just have to stay aware of these things -- read the policy updates and don't just ignore.

    Personally I like Google+ better, the interface, circles, and the new communities. But facebook does get more traffic.

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    Re: Facebook/Instagram wants to sell your photos with no compensation to you?

    Here ya go ... they're clarifying the wording ...

    http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-575...l-your-photos/

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    Re: Facebook/Instagram wants to sell your photos with no compensation to you?

    Sorry - just not buying it...

    This really reads as a "We're not sorry we did it, we're sorry we got caught." There wasn't anything confusing about that wording - it was pretty cut and dry.

    I think the last line of that article is telling. They went 24 hours without any responses to questions on it... to me that sounds like they were testing the waters and seeing how things played out.

    - Bill

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    Re: Facebook/Instagram wants to sell your photos with no compensation to you?

    And in general, I prefer explanations in terms of 'We have modified...' instead of 'We will modify...', the more so when no time limit is specified.
    I'm a bit over-suspicious wrt Facebook, as their reputation isn't too good where privacy and ToS is concerned.

    There is still this paragraph in their Terms of Usage (to take effect on January 16th, 2013):

    Rights

    1 Instagram does not claim ownership of any Content that you post on or through the Service. Instead, you hereby grant to Instagram a non-exclusive, fully paid and royalty-free, transferable, sub-licensable, worldwide license to use the Content that you post on or through the Service, except that you can control who can view certain of your Content and activities on the Service as described in the Service's Privacy Policy, available here: http://instagram.com/legal/privacy/.
    (emphasis mine)

    To me, that implies that they can still sell/license anything you put in there for their own purposes... (user control is carefully limited to 'view...on the Service')

    Edit: I'm not sure what this means for content already present on the service...
    Last edited by revi; 19th December 2012 at 01:25 PM.

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    Re: Facebook/Instagram wants to sell your photos with no compensation to you?

    With all their money, lawyers and past media oops's, I'm sure that policy change was vetted six ways to Sunday. This was intentional, whether to actually get away with such a preposterous thing or just to get publicity or some other intention I can't imagine. Either way, I don't like the way they do business. I switched to Google+ a long time ago after one of their other "I'm sorry we didn't mean to confuse you about your security" incidents. They are so ingrained in everything, that yes, I do miss out on a few things but I just don't want to support what I believe is an unethical company.

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    Re: Facebook/Instagram wants to sell your photos with no compensation to you?

    Some questions from a non Facebook user
    Pardon my ignorance but it would seem to me that the way to circumvent the issue is to use Facebook as social network tool but have it link to your images on another site, such as SmugMug. Then there is nothing for them to steal, and to me what they are doing is theft, pure, plain and simple. As has been pointed out they are integrated into everything so to quit using them if they are beneficial might not be the way to go. I have intentionally avoided all the social media hype for years so I am not really knowledgeable in this area, but am looking into marketing my services now and the social media is where everyone is at, so it seems. Thus my thoughts about using them but not having pictures posted. Am I wet behind the ears?? What do you think? There has to be a way to beat them at their own game.

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    Re: Facebook/Instagram wants to sell your photos with no compensation to you?

    They have "clarified" that it is all a misunderstanding.

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    Re: Facebook/Instagram wants to sell your photos with no compensation to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobobird View Post
    They have "clarified" that it is all a misunderstanding.
    It's interesting how advertising people can change their mind (because there was so much negative reaction), and then attempt to make it look like we all misinterpreted what they said:

    First (from the dpreview release):

    Systrom writes:

    "Our intention in updating the terms was to communicate that wed like to experiment with innovative advertising that feels appropriate on Instagram. Instead it was interpreted by many that we were going to sell your photos to others without any compensation. This is not true and it is our mistake that this language is confusing. To be clear: it is not our intention to sell your photos. We are working on updated language in the terms to make sure this is clear."


    The next paragraph from the release by dpreview is:

    The reworded terms of service language that caused the uproar specifically stated: "To help us deliver interesting paid or sponsored content or promotions, you agree that a business or other entity may pay us to display your username, likeness, photos (along with any associated metadata), and/or actions you take, in connection with paid or sponsored content or promotions, without any compensation to you."


    I'm not particularly inspired by their business acumen, and I'm not forgetting that the IPO share value of Facebook dropped like a rock shortly after release (hmmm, let me see, how do we get our share value back up so we can make some more money? - oops, that didn't work - now what?).

    Glenn

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    Re: Facebook/Instagram wants to sell your photos with no compensation to you?

    I think people got the wrong end of the stick right from the word go -- and then ran with it.

    All they were ever intending to do was use the tiniest fraction of user photos in their own online advertising -- that's the bit people should be judging them on. It was never - EVER - going to be a situation where (for example) they were going to be looking through someone's photos - finding some good ones - and then "click here to enter your credit card number to buy this photo from Instagram right now".

    I'm really quite puzzled as to why folks always have to assume that "they're out to be sneaky and evil", when doing so would so obviously be commercial suicide? Never let the truth get in the way of a good public flogging
    Last edited by Colin Southern; 19th December 2012 at 06:38 PM.

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    Re: Facebook/Instagram wants to sell your photos with no compensation to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Colin Southern View Post
    I think people got the wrong end of the stick right from the word go -- and then ran with it.

    All they were ever intending to do was use the tiniest fraction of user photos in their own online advertising -- that's the bit people should be judging them on. It was never - EVER - going to be a situation where (for example) they were going to be looking through someone's photos - finding some good ones - and then "click here to enter your credit card number to buy this photo from Instagram right now".

    I'm really quite puzzled as to why folks always have to assume that "they're out to be sneaky and evil", when doing so would so obviously be commercial suicide? Never let the truth get in the way of a good public flogging

    They are being judged on their actions; and it's not exclusive to this forum.

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    Re: Facebook/Instagram wants to sell your photos with no compensation to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Colin Southern View Post
    All they were ever intending to do was use the tiniest fraction of user photos in their own online advertising -- that's the bit people should be judging them on. It was never - EVER - going to be a situation where (for example) they were going to be looking through someone's photos - finding some good ones - and then "click here to enter your credit card number to buy this photo from Instagram right now".

    I'm really quite puzzled as to why folks always have to assume that "they're out to be sneaky and evil", when doing so would so obviously be commercial suicide? Never let the truth get in the way of a good public flogging
    Colin: I have no idea what they were intending to do, but what they wrote pretty well gave them the right to do whatever they wanted to do if people were silly enough to agree to it. Perhaps they would never do anything sneaky or evil but they were asking for consent to do it now or in the future.

    The next paragraph from the release by dpreview is:

    The reworded terms of service language that caused the uproar specifically stated: "To help us deliver interesting paid or sponsored content or promotions, you agree that a business or other entity may pay us to display your username, likeness, photos (along with any associated metadata), and/or actions you take, in connection with paid or sponsored content or promotions, without any compensation to you."
    The language looks pretty clear to me. I don't think anyone misinterpreted anything

    Wendy

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    Re: Facebook/Instagram wants to sell your photos with no compensation to you?

    nothing sneaky about "....without any compensation to you". nope. none what-so-ever!

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    Re: Facebook/Instagram wants to sell your photos with no compensation to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by ScoutR View Post
    Colin: I have no idea what they were intending to do, but what they wrote pretty well gave them the right to do whatever they wanted to do if people were silly enough to agree to it. Perhaps they would never do anything sneaky or evil but they were asking for consent to do it now or in the future.
    Probably right, but is it much different to any of the other 173 pages of 4-point legalese EULAs that we consent to 100 times a day?

    My point was that I thought it was pretty unfair for them to be "executed by internet hysteria" when what they were intending to do was (a) fair and reasonable, (b) no more than many other organisations are probably doing, and (c) NOTHING like those who were adding fuel to the fire were proclaiming (with the very title of this thread being a prime example).

    To be honest, I saw it as little more than yet another opportunity for a few to get a bit of attention for themselves by blowing it out of all proportion; great that they've clarified the wording, but I honestly don't think there was much more to it than that. Probably just a result of a bunch of lawyers doing what they typically do.

    IMO it's this kind of "mob mentality" rather than just a little "good faith" that lead to so much of the political correctness that we all suffer these days as a consequence.

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    Re: Facebook/Instagram wants to sell your photos with no compensation to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Colin Southern View Post
    Probably right, but is it much different to any of the other 173 pages of 4-point legalese EULAs that we consent to 100 times a day?
    Agree 100% on this point. Banks and insurance company documents come immediately to mind. I wouldn't hesitate to use the words sneaky and evil when taking the time to read some of the crap they want me to sign.

    My point was that I thought it was pretty unfair for them to be "executed by internet hysteria" when what they were intending to do was (a) fair and reasonable, (b) no more than many other organizations are probably doing, and (c) NOTHING like those who were adding fuel to the fire were proclaiming (with the very title of this thread being a prime example).
    Sorry Colin, but I don't know how you can claim to KNOW what they intended. What they wrote in the agreement they wanted people to sign said one thing, but what they SAID, which means NOTHING was something altogether different, and the fact that so many other organizations are getting people to sign all sorts of things they would not agree to if they were not buried in pages and pages of legalize does not make this particular case right. It gives me some hope that perhaps this case will cause more people to read and understand the entire contents of what they are signing.
    I will agree with you on point C. misrepresenting or exaggerating what is wrong will only result in a loss of credibility for what is a credible concern.

    IMO it's this kind of "mob mentality" rather than just a little "good faith" that lead to so much of the political correctness that we all suffer these days as a consequence.
    I'd really prefer to see A LOT more good faith on the side of the ones writing the agreements. It really does not inspire good faith to ask someone to sign a document that authorizes something and then tell them - Oh no, that's not what we meant, we wouldn't use it for that even if you have given us permission. We only wrote it that way because that's the way lawyers talk. That's just BS.

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    Re: Facebook/Instagram wants to sell your photos with no compensation to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by ScoutR View Post
    Sorry Colin, but I don't know how you can claim to KNOW what they intended.
    But interestingly, those fueling the internet lynching seem to think that THEY know EXACTLY what Instagram intended. For me, it comes down to balance of probability; which is more likely (a) they were planning to sell the photos of their customers without compensation or (b) they were planning to use some photos (and other information) to create paid targeted advertising? I think that those who genuinely believe it to be the former probably rank right up there with those who believe the moon landings were a hoax and that Elvis is still alive. It just doesn't make any sense - it would be commercial suicide - and I'd like to think that anybody who stopped and thought about it for a minute would have come to the same conclusion - but - does that stop publications seizing on the opportunity to score some points and generate some exposure? Nope - not for a second. IMO opinion it's a classic case of "lets not let the truth get in the way of a good story".

    I think it's nothing more than a cheap shot to "put the boot in" and imply the worst when there was never anything dishonorable in their intentions. I'd even go so far as to say that I think Instagram probably has a lot more integrity than the major publications and news sites that are trying to turn it into something that it's not.

    It gives me some hope that perhaps this case will cause more people to read and understand the entire contents of what they are signing.
    I think that if people didn't sign things like that then they would probably find it very difficult to function happily in a modern world (where they can probably forget using computers - websites etc for a start).

    I'd really prefer to see A LOT more good faith on the side of the ones writing the agreements. It really does not inspire good faith to ask someone to sign a document that authorizes something and then tell them - Oh no, that's not what we meant, we wouldn't use it for that even if you have given us permission. We only wrote it that way because that's the way lawyers talk. That's just BS.
    I too would like to see a lot more good faith all round -- I for one was a big believer in that. Tell you what though, it's bitten me in the bum more than once this year to the point where I've been taken advantage of so badly that I'm really at a point where I've had to put good faith aside and start covering my ar*e. And yes - it is a sad reflection on life when one has to do that. Just think what it's like when you're a global business with hundreds of millions of users, where many people will do anything that gives them something of benefit regardless of the ethics. Having just said all that - and having read through Instagram's T&C - I thought it was actually very much one of the more readable and reasonable ones.

    Unfortunately - because of a small minority who don't understand the meaning of good faith, we now live in a world of political correctness where the "dotting of 'i's'" and "crossing of 't's'" is the norm.

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