Results 1 to 11 of 11

Thread: Getting sun into a frame

  1. #1

    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Rijeka, Croatia
    Posts
    10
    Real Name
    Ivan S.

    Getting sun into a frame

    How does one let in the maximum of the sun's lens flare. I love that but unfortunately don't have an idea how to do it. Like here: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-hL6ZnwbSGo...1600/B_C16.jpg or here: http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/_/...+Mail++You.png Please help me.

  2. #2
    Moderator GrumpyDiver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Ottawa, Canada
    Posts
    12,336
    Real Name
    Manfred Mueller

    Re: Getting sun into a frame

    Shoot into the direction of the sun, especially with a cheap, dirty lens and you can recreate an effect most of us are trying to avoid. If that doesn't work, add an uncoated clear or UV filter over your lens and that may help too. Both shots were made with the sun just out of the frame.

    Looking directly at the sun through your viewfinder is a very dangerous thing to do! DON'T EVER DO IT. PERMANENT EYE DAMAGE CAN RESULT. DO IT FOR ANY LENGTH OF TIME AND YOU CAN DAMAGE YOUR CAMERA TOO!

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Lachine, Quebec, Canada
    Posts
    152
    Real Name
    Erik

    Re: Getting sun into a frame

    It comes down to physics.
    Try this: set the camera on a tripod where the sun is out in the distance. You will ideally want to sun around the edge of your frame. Keep in mind the warning that Manfred gave you. Then, start stopping down your aperture. Go from your largest (f/1.8) to your smallest (f/32).
    You will see that as the aperture gets smaller you get more sun flare.

    Enjoy, and keep your eyes safe.

  4. #4

    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Rijeka, Croatia
    Posts
    10
    Real Name
    Ivan S.

    Re: Getting sun into a frame

    Thank You both. This was very helpful. I will do some experimenting tomorrow. Will maybe upload the results to let You know.

  5. #5
    Moderator GrumpyDiver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Ottawa, Canada
    Posts
    12,336
    Real Name
    Manfred Mueller

    Re: Getting sun into a frame

    Effectively what you are trying to accomplish is to getting the light to hit the lens at an oblique angle at the edge of your lens and bounce around on the lens elements and filter elements. This creates lens flare. The occasional geometric coloured images are reflections that have been shaped by your lenses iris, and the colours show the frequencies of light that have been reflected in spite of the various thin film lens coatings. Your lens manufacturer has worked hard to minimize the effect you are trying to create...

  6. #6
    William W's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Sraylya
    Posts
    3,834
    Real Name
    William (call me Bill)

    Re: Getting sun into a frame

    The image in the first link exhibits VEILING FLARE and that is why it appears so washed out.
    I wouldn’t be surprised if there is a little Post Production done also to make it appear more washed out.

    To MAXIMIZE Veiling Flare as well as shooting into the sun, as a general guide it is better:
    To use a zoom lens rather than a prime lens
    To use a crappy old lens rather than a new expensive multicoated lens
    To use a UV Filter – especially a cheap one
    To not use any lens hood
    To use the lens wide open

    ***

    I cannot open the second link reference.

    ***

    Lens Flare which appears as Light Spots in the shape of the iris or appearing straight lines of light, is different to Veiling Flare.

    For this type of Lens Flare it is best to stop down a bit and manoeuvre the lens to make the Flare align across the image as you want it to appear as part of the Composition.

    An example of Lens Flare showing the Shapes of the Iris (the penatgon shaped light blotches), made by using an F/2.8 lens, stopped down to F/7.1:
    Getting sun into a frame
    Image © 2009 AJ GROUP P/L AUS

    WW

  7. #7

    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Rijeka, Croatia
    Posts
    10
    Real Name
    Ivan S.

    Re: Getting sun into a frame

    -Diver: I know that what i'm trying to do is really wrong but in my eyes pictures with lens flare look really really nice. I even involved them on my website xD. I tried now with an angle and it looks like the first pic. Thank You.

    -William: To use UV filter to have more lens flare? Aren't they used for minimizing lens flare? You sure You can't open srcecond link? It works both on my phone and my computer. Thanks for Your suggestions too.

  8. #8
    darkslide's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Auch, SW France
    Posts
    143
    Real Name
    Ian (the other one)

    Re: Getting sun into a frame

    Quote Originally Posted by eVaan View Post
    -William: To use UV filter to have more lens flare? Aren't they used for minimizing lens flare? You sure You can't open srcecond link? It works both on my phone and my computer. Thanks for Your suggestions too.
    Using ANY filter (but particularly one with a cheap coating) will increase the posibility of flare simply due to the additional surfaces that the light source can reflet upon.

  9. #9
    Moderator GrumpyDiver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Ottawa, Canada
    Posts
    12,336
    Real Name
    Manfred Mueller

    Re: Getting sun into a frame

    eVaan - I'm not saying there is anything wrong with what you are doing. It's a technique and as you've put it, it can be quite effective in some situations. I've certainly played with it myself. The point I was trying to make is that, in general, photographers and lens makers have been working quite hard to reduce the impact of lens flare. Multi-coatings and all of the tradesmarks like Nano-coatings, an such are there to reduce flare. If a photographer wants this effect, he or she has to work hard to get the lens flare back. This means one has to provide an environment where there is ample opportunity for reflections in your setup to counteract the modern lens technology. The suggestions made all really head you down that direction.

    1. Have the sun just out of the frame - sun rays that come in at an accute angle have a higher likelihood of reflecting;

    2. Use a cheap lens - the lens maker will not have spent the money to provide the highest quality anti-reflection coatings;

    3. Use a zoom lens - these will have more elements than a prime lens, so there are more glass-to-air interfaces for light to
    bounce off of and create the flare;

    4. Use a dirty len - again, this introduces an "additional" coating that interferes with the anti-reflection coatings ability to work. As an interesting historical note, this is actually how anti-reflection coatings were first discovered. Photographers found that older lenses exhibited less lens flare than newer ones as a result of their being exposed to atmospheric contaminants; this "discovery" stems back to the late 1800's so the knoweldge has been advancing for a long time; and

    5. Use a cheap, non-coated clear or UV filter - this just introduces another air-glass interface that allows the reflections to form. UV filters remove the "invisible" UV component that sensors (and film) are somewhat sensitive too. This removes the haze, but does not do anything with regard to internal reflections.

    The reason to not use a lens hood is that these are designed to block oblique light rays from hitting the surface of your lens. You want the light to hit at an acute angle to produce the lens flare, so anything that reduces it has to go.

    Once you've done this, as Bill points out, it's trial and error in your composition to get the effect you want. I find that a tripod is really useful for repeatability. Again. Bill is right about stoping down to get the iris shape in your reflections. A wide open lens (or close to wide open) takes the iris out of the equation and stopping it down to get the size and shape you want adds this "feature" to your flare.

  10. #10

    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Rijeka, Croatia
    Posts
    10
    Real Name
    Ivan S.

    Re: Getting sun into a frame

    My computer seems to have a special reason to hate the button for uploading photos but here is the link:

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/7947689...n/photostream/

  11. #11
    William W's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Sraylya
    Posts
    3,834
    Real Name
    William (call me Bill)

    Re: Getting sun into a frame

    Quote Originally Posted by eVaan View Post
    To use UV filter to have more lens flare? Aren't they used for minimizing lens flare? You sure You can't open srcecond link? It works both on my phone and my computer. Thanks for Your suggestions too.
    Note that a UV Filter was mentioned specifically to enhance Veiling Flare - which is the specific type of Lens Flare in the first sample.

    Also note I mentioned a poor quality UV Filter.
    As mentioned above, a filter (especially a poor Quality UV Filter) increases the amount of surfaces and also the likelihood that the light can reflect upon (inside the lens).

    Increasing the amount of INTERNAL REFLECTIONS of light increases the VEILING FLARE.



    For the Specula Lines of lens Flare, or the Iris Shapes of Lens Flare: a UV filter MIGHT enhance those, but it would be better NOT to use any filter, because a Filter might add VEILING FLARE and that would mean the nice shapes of Flare Light would be less distinct in the shot.


    No. A UV Filter’s job is NOT to minimize Flare.
    (optically) A UV Filter is to filter UV light, mostly presenting as minute specula reflections from atmospherics, such as haze – one of a UV Filter's jobs, therefore, is to make clouds and the sky more crisp; with more contrast.

    Very good UV Filters are rated according to ALTITUDE, the higher the Altitude, the more UV Light; and the stronger UV Filters will have a very slight yellow tinge.

    Good UV Filters will have a coating, especially on the lens side of the filter, which in the commentary might be described as “coated to minimize lens flare” . . . but the filter is NOT designed to “minimize lens flare” the coating on the filter is there to minimize the flare WHICH ADDING THE FILTER might create.

    It is apparent that UV Filter’s optically qualities are more noticeable on various Film Stock, rather than on Digital Sensors.

    UV Filters are often used for “Lens Protection”: this point often gives rise to much discussion, debate and often quite heated debate. . .

    ***

    I can open the second link now - must have been a problem my end.

    That Flare is also Veiling Flare, but limited to a small area of the shot in the top RH corner and it is combined with the area being burnt out.

    The area of Flare is also what we refer to as "bleed" across a small portion of her hat and face - where the area lacks contrast and definition.

    WW

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •