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Thread: Saving Camera Raw files in PS 10 Organiser

  1. #1

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    Saving Camera Raw files in PS 10 Organiser

    Hi all
    I've only been using PS 10 for a few weeks but I still don't understand what happens when I save a Raw image.
    I open up a Raw file in the Camera Raw software (call it Picture A.RAW), make various changes and then click on Save. I save the photo as a DNG file with the same name, in the same location, but obviously it has a DNG file extension (Picture A.DNG). When I go back into Organiser to view both files side by side they are carbon copies, i.e. they have the same post processing settings! Why is the original PictureA.RAW now the same as PictureA.DNG? And how do I get back to the original PictureA.Raw?

    Thanks

    Adrian

  2. #2

    Re: Saving Camera Raw files in PS 10 Organiser

    Not sue I'm understanding your question, why wouldn't they be the same?

    You opened the RAW file and applied changes. You then save the DNG file so that looks the same as the RAW. The program assumes that you made changes to the RAW file because that is what you want the image to look like. When you close the RAW file it isn't going to throw away the work you did because that would mean you have to reapply the changes next time you open the file. Most users wouldn't be too happy with software that did that.

    If you specifically want to cancel the work you made to the RAW file most RAW processing software has a cancel button that will reset the RAW file to its original state.

  3. #3
    herbert's Avatar
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    Re: Saving Camera Raw files in PS 10 Organiser

    Hi Adrian,

    When you edit a raw file you do not actually change the raw data. You change the way the data is interpreted by the system to show the image. This is saved so that next time you look at the raw file it is shown in the state that you left it.

    The development settings for the raw file are stored in a separate file (labelled .XMP) or if you are using the DNG format they are stored inside the DNG file.

    Since you are looking at your raw file within the PS 10 Organiser it will generate the thumbnail and view of the image using your saved development settings. To go back to the original you will have to reset it.

    I am not familiar with PS Elements 10 so I cannot say exactly how to reset the raw. However if you manage to do this you will find it will look different from the copy DNG file since that still has its development settings saved inside the DNG file.

    I would not use the 'Save as DNG' command to generate different versions of the image. This is because all the pixel data is copied for each DNG wasting a lot of space. Instead you can generate different development settings for the same raw data. You can see this as having a large file with the pixel data and lots of tiny files with different development settings.

    In the Photoshop world you generate different versions of the same raw image using virtual copies. Each virtual copy points to the same raw image data but uses the data in a different way.

    Unfortunately from the Adobe website I could not find out if Elements 10 supports virtual copies. This is a shame since the feature is very useful. For example, you can have a colour; black and white; and cropped versions of the same image. Hopefully someone will be able to tell you if this is possible. If not then the next Adobe option for virtual copies would be Lightroom. Photoshop CS also supports this but is more expensive again.

    Alex

  4. #4

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    Re: Saving Camera Raw files in PS 10 Organiser

    Hi Dan....I thought it was going to work like a Microsoft Word file, ie I open up Doc 1, make changes to it and save as Doc 2. I now have two different documents, the original (Doc1) and the one I applied changes to and saved (Doc2).

    Thanks Alex...I'll investigate

  5. #5
    Kris V's Avatar
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    Re: Saving Camera Raw files in PS 10 Organiser

    The edits you do in RAW are saved as a xmp sidecar file.
    If you need to see them side-by-side (the original RAW and the DNG, you could try opening them in Faststone Viewer or Irfanview.
    AFAIK, both ignore the attached sidecar xmp file so they will give you the OOC RAW file..
    Both programs are free.
    ACDSee opens them as well, but that's not a free program.

  6. #6
    herbert's Avatar
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    Re: Saving Camera Raw files in PS 10 Organiser

    Quote Originally Posted by Kris V View Post
    If you need to see them side-by-side (the original RAW and the DNG, you could try opening them in Faststone Viewer or Irfanview. AFAIK, both ignore the attached sidecar xmp file so they will give you the OOC RAW file..
    A raw file will include a small JPEG version of the image embedded into the file. It is often used by previewing software to show the raw image without having to read and process all the pixels. This may be used by Faststone Viewer for speed. It is a nice piece of software and worth having on your machine to browse lots of different types of image.

    Alex

  7. #7
    rpcrowe's Avatar
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    Re: Saving Camera Raw files in PS 10 Organiser

    I absolutely HATE the Elements Organizer! IMO, it is a big PITA to work with. I prefer to save the images WHERE and HOW I want to save them, not WHERE and HOW the Organizer cides it wants to save the images.

    As an examply, I recently received a copy of Premiere Elments 10. The program asked me where I wanted to save the videos. I had a space on a new harddrive just for the videos and told the organizer to save my videos there.

    Suddenly, I couldn't find any of the still images that the Organizer saved for me. It had saved these images under videos.

    You are SUPPOSED to be able to circumvent the annoying (for me) Organizer by selecting a Use Developer Only option. I tried that and the Photoshop Elements would never open after I shut it down unless I opted to log off before attempting to open it again...

    Additionally, often when I open Organizer, the program decides that it needs to update itself and I am kept waiting for several minutes until the Organizer completes the update before I can edit a photo or work with a video...

    I have tens of thousands of images stored and as long as I was filing the images with my own system, I never misplaced an imace. I could open an image in seconds.

  8. #8
    Moderator Dave Humphries's Avatar
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    Re: Saving Camera Raw files in PS 10 Organiser

    Hi Adrian,

    With Elements; if you really don't want the workflow used to date visible in the RAW file (.nef,.cr2, etc.) when reopened, just remove the xmp files and Elements will have to 'start from scratch' when you re-open the RAW file. I have done this occasionally.

    Not sure if there's a method with ACR to discard previous edits, I'd have expected there to be.

    Be careful deleting files!
    So easy to make a mistake

    Cheers,

  9. #9

    Re: Saving Camera Raw files in PS 10 Organiser

    Quote Originally Posted by rpcrowe View Post
    I absolutely HATE the Elements Organizer!
    Not had any of the problems you described. The organiser puts images exactly where I want it to and works fine. Only draw back for me is that the version of ACR that comes with it is cut down from the PS version and so doesn't include a number of the tools.

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