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Thread: copyright?

  1. #1

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    copyright?

    If you enter a Photo contest and your image wins money, does that mean you don't own the copyright anymore?

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    Quote Originally Posted by slooky View Post
    If you enter a Photo contest and your image wins money, does that mean you don't own the copyright anymore?
    No idea - but most competitions seem to have terms and conditions that spell out things like that.

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    Re: copyright?

    I don't know for sure, but I wouldn't imagine so. The money was for winning a contest, not as reimbursement for purchasing your work. On entering the competition, you may have released the photo to be published if it did win, but I can only imagine it still belongs to you. It's your photo after all. As Colin mentioned, unless there is something specific in the 'terms & conditions' that states otherwise.

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    Re: copyright?

    The rules vary so you'll need to read the fine print. In some contests they own the total rights to the image even if you don't win so if it is important to you then verify.

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    Re: copyright?

    I read an article recently where the competition was more of an image grab. Part of the contract for entering the competition was giving up all rights AND still retain the blame should anything go wrong.
    For example - take a picture of your cute 14 year old neighbours daughter, enter the image. Doesn't win (doesn't matter), but the comp organisers now have the image rights. Because they were your neighbour, you didn't bother with a model release.
    Suddenyl you start seeing the image being used in an advertisement for sexually transmitted disease. Your neighbours daughter is mortified as is her parents. According to the contract in entering the comp, YOU have to bear responsibility for any legal issues arising.
    Be careful

    Graham

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    Re: copyright?

    thanks for the answers

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    Re: copyright?

    The starting point is that you own copyright. That is unequivocal.

    However, the terms of the competition might say that you have to give up copyright. We might then think that if you enter the competition you therefore automatically hand over copyright. However, that may not be the case, as it could be deemed that the claim to acquire copyright by virtue of an image being entered, was unclear, unfair or unreasonable (this is when it starts becoming a minefield). Of course, your only recourse in such circumstances would be through the courts. And do you have the time, resources or energy for such a fight?

    On the other hand, a court might consider that it was your responsibility was to satisfy yourself about all the clauses pertaining to the competition before entering and that it's your tough luck if something then goes wrong re copyright.

    The best advice I would offer is that if ANY competition refers to you having to surrender copyright, you don't take part no matter how attractive the prize money seems.

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    Re: copyright?

    Quote Originally Posted by FrankMi View Post
    The rules vary so you'll need to read the fine print. In some contests they own the total rights to the image even if you don't win so if it is important to you then verify.
    Very possible. A (devious) method of acquiring the rights to some good images without paying for them.

    Glenn

  9. #9

    Re: copyright?

    As others have said it depends on the terms you agreed to when entering the competition. By default you own the copyright unless you enter into an agreement that changes that.

  10. #10
    William W's Avatar
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    Re: copyright?

    Quote Originally Posted by dan marchant View Post
    By default you own the copyright unless you enter into an agreement that changes that.
    Not sure of the meaning of the sentence 'By default you [the Photographer] own the copyright unless you enter into an agreement that changes that'.

    But just for clarity - the statement literally, is incorrect.

    Copyright is dependent upon the Laws of Copyright applicable to the Situation and within the aegis of those (Country's or State's) Laws - and that is not necessarily a defaut of copyright to the Photographer.

    However it is correct that in many circumstances in many countries, the Photographer automatically owns the copyright, unless there is agreement otherwise.

    WW

    Addendum - this comment also applies to my interpreation of the meaning of Donald's repsonse:

    "The starting point is that you own copyright. That is unequivocal."

    I didn't notice this earlier.
    Last edited by William W; 2nd March 2012 at 06:56 PM. Reason: Added Addendum and clarification

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    Re: copyright?

    Quote Originally Posted by William W View Post
    Not sure if the meaning is "if you already own the copyright then . . . 'By default you own the copyright unless you enter into an agreement that changes that'."

    But just for clarity - the statement standing alone, is incorrect.

    Copyright is dependent upon the Laws of Copyright applicable to the Situation and within the aegis of those (Country's or State's) Laws - and that is not necessarily a defaut of copyright to the Photographer.

    However it is correct that in many circumstances in many countries, the Photographer automatically owns the copyright, unless there is agreement otherwise.

    WW
    Case in point - I came across a discussion document from a legal firm the other day -- apparantly in NZ, if the photographer has been paid for the work then copyright belongs to the person paying.

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    Re: copyright?

    Quote Originally Posted by Colin Southern View Post
    Case in point - I came across a discussion document from a legal firm the other day -- apparantly in NZ, if the photographer has been paid for the work then copyright belongs to the person paying.
    That sounds about right.

  13. #13
    William W's Avatar
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    Re: copyright?

    New Zealand is one place, of several, where similar laws apply.

    There is no ill-intent to any comments posted here or to any member here, but, this but this is a trap into which many (budding) W&P Photographers launch their business venture headlong, based upon wrong - mainly no cost internet - information regarding: Copyright.

    I have seen one person, (Aussie) lose a lot because of it: and that was the sole reason for the original comment.


    WW

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    Re: copyright?

    Quote Originally Posted by Colin Southern View Post
    Case in point - I came across a discussion document from a legal firm the other day -- apparantly in NZ, if the photographer has been paid for the work then copyright belongs to the person paying.
    "The work" here being the work of creating and taking the image, not the image itself ('work for hire')? And that's another reason to discuss copyright and publication rights with a lawyer... For instance, the portraits you take of and for a client: who holds the copyright, and which parts (French law recognises several rights, some of which cannot be transferred)?

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    William W's Avatar
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    Re: copyright?

    Quote Originally Posted by revi View Post
    "The work" here being the work of creating and taking the image, not the image itself ('work for hire')?
    I don't believe that is necessarily so.
    The legal discussion could easliy be refering to "the work" as the Image and the Copyright of that Image: of this fact I am quite confident

    It might also be referring to working for payment under contract or employment: I don't know.

    But I don't think NZ has "work for hire" as a defintion as such, like "work for hire" is a definition in the USA, I believe.

    WW

  16. #16
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    Re: copyright?

    This will be of interest to photographers and amateurs in UK, discussing in some detail about copyright and licenses and the grey areas in between
    http://redeye.org.uk/knowhow/copyright-introduction

  17. #17

    Re: copyright?

    Quote Originally Posted by revi View Post
    "The work" here being the work of creating and taking the image, not the image itself ('work for hire')
    No, it is referring to the image and copyright in that image. In NZ, Australia and Canada, if a client commissions a photographer and pays them, then the client owns the copyright on the images - unless they sign an agreement which gives those rights to the photographer.

    Here is the relevant part of Canadian copyright act. Don't have links to the others to hand.
    http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/a...8.html#docCont section 13.(2)
    Last edited by dan marchant; 13th February 2012 at 02:47 PM.

  18. #18

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    Re: copyright?

    Sorry, that's more or less what I intended to say: the rights of the image go to the person commissioning the work, (as in 'asking the photographer to make an image about...'), as opposed to 'someone buying a print (as a work of art) gets the rights to the image'.

    Edit: and, btw., that question mark Dan omitted was there for a reason...
    Last edited by revi; 14th February 2012 at 06:21 AM.

  19. #19
    William W's Avatar
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    Re: copyright?

    Quote Originally Posted by revi View Post
    . . .that question mark . . . was there for a reason...
    Yes, I knew that.

    ***

    On another topic . . .

    Is Valentine's Day a big gig in France?

    WW

  20. #20

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    Re: copyright?

    Here you go - everything you ever wanted to know about Photography & The Law in New Zealand:

    http://www.theshooter.co.nz/download..._COPYRIGHT.pdf

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