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Thread: Which Camera Bundle for Novice?

  1. #1
    Tonykro's Avatar
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    Which Camera Bundle for Novice?

    I am looking to buy my first DSLR, on a limited budget of up to 600 and for this I would like a camera and zoom lens.
    I have looked at 2 options - the Canon EOS 500D is being offered by Jessops here in UK with a Canon EF-S 75-300mm f/4-5.6 III DC Lens for 479.95 but have heard some bad reports about this lens.
    My prefered option is the Nikon D3100 with a Tamron 70-300mm F4/5.6 DI for 549.90 - the problem with this is that the Nikon is out of stock everywhere I have tried with new stock not expected in for a couple of month.
    Any advice appreciated
    Thanks
    Tony

  2. #2
    Black Pearl's Avatar
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    Re: Which Camera Bundle for Novice?

    Staying with jessops go for the EOS1100D Mega Bundle

    Several reasons:

    1. The 1100D is a 2011 model with much better image quality and high ISO performance - check out the comparisons here dpreview.com

    2. You get an image stabilised Canon 18-55mm with the 1100D that the 500D doesn't come with.

    3. The Tamron is a decent lens, comes with a hood and has a 1:2 Macro switch, neither of which the Canon has.

    4. You get a Tecno Bag, two UV Filters and some LCD Screen Protectors that you don't get with the 500D.

    Add a decent memory card and you'd still have enough cash for a tripod.

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    Re: Which Camera Bundle for Novice?

    i'd probably say none of them.

    that's not a comment either of the two you suggested or the one suggested by blackpearl.

    The Tamron lens is not stabilised which for a 105-450 equivalent is a must really.

    Go for the best camera and lens you can. I appreciate you want everything but you are better off buying quality and adding lenses later. remember quality lenses last longer than camera bodies

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    Re: Which Camera Bundle for Novice?

    Quote Originally Posted by thequacksoflife View Post
    i'd probably say none of them.
    But I'm not sure what you are suggesting as an alternative. Therefore, what are you suggesting given the budget figure set out by Tony? I don't think he is saying he wants everything. I read him to be saying that he would like the best he can get within the budget he has available.

    I thought Robin's suggestion was extremely helpful and a very realistic option.

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    Re: Which Camera Bundle for Novice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Donald View Post
    I thought Robin's suggestion was extremely helpful and a very realistic option.
    Donald:

    I looked into the 1100D a few moments ago - I was very pleasantly shocked at the results:

    http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/Cano...00D/page10.asp

    This should be the noise comparison chart. I compared the 1100 to the Canon 7D, Nikon D5100, and the Nikon D7000. One can also compare other brands such as Sony, Oly, Lumix.

    Then I turned the NR off (in order to compare what the sensors actually do). Up to ISO 800, it's as good as any of them.

    So I agree with your assessment - and that of Robin - it seems to be a very good choice.

    Glenn
    Last edited by Glenn NK; 11th January 2012 at 11:44 PM. Reason: changed name referenced to from Tony to Robin

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    Black Pearl's Avatar
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    Re: Which Camera Bundle for Novice?

    The 1100D is a very underrated camera, it's not a flagship body, it doesn't get lots of press but it has a Digic 4 processor, sensible pixels and the functions that matter.

    I find it odd that people say an IS lens is a must - it's new technology and we've shot without it for over a hundred years with great results.

    Technique is what matters and not technology - stick a basic camera with a basic lens on a sturdy tripod (which I said could be bought within budget) and it will beat a better camera with a better lens that is held by an inexperienced photographer.

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    Re: Which Camera Bundle for Novice?

    Hmmm, another IS debate - there's a hot one over at POTN, let's not start another.

    IS/VR is new technology, but so is digital, so surely that can't be an argument against it.

    I shoot 95 to 98% with a tripod, but there are times where it just is not possible, and there are many places where tripods are not only not welcome, they are not allowed.

    Develop good technique - it is important.

    Use the technology where appropriate - it can make technique even more effective (or vice versa).

    Glenn

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    Re: Which Camera Bundle for Novice?

    Tony, have a look at the Pentax range, eg http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/pentaxkr/page11.asp

    Some good starter cameras and as the image stabilisation is in the body of the camera, any lens used becomes a stabilised lens, also lots of old K mount lenses will fit all current Pentax DSLRs.

    Have to admit my bias as I have a Pentax DSLR. This is not to say Pentax will produce better images than any other camera - there are many very good cameras from every manufacturer - or that you should only consider Pentax as an alternative. There are many others, but I appreciate it is a minefield out there.

    Dave

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    Black Pearl's Avatar
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    Re: Which Camera Bundle for Novice?

    There are lots of threads like this where an OP asked about a camera/system/lens/gadget with a budget in mind.

    We all have a preference to our own brand of choice - mine is Nikon if you hadn't guessed - and there is nothing wrong with says "Buy a XXXXX, I use one and its great"

    The thing is just saying a Canon/Nikon/Sony/Pentax/Olympus/Panasonic...etc is a great camera doesn't help. In this thread Tony says he has a 600 budget, if you are going to reply then give him a Camera and Zoom Lens thats fits his budget and a reason why you think it is a good choice.

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    Re: Which Camera Bundle for Novice?

    sorry haven't read what everyone has put but I would avoid jessops, they tend to be more expensive than pretty much everywhere, look at WEX or park cameras online, 9 times outs of 10 they are cheaper

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    Re: Which Camera Bundle for Novice?


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    Re: Which Camera Bundle for Novice?

    Quote Originally Posted by Donald View Post
    But I'm not sure what you are suggesting as an alternative. Therefore, what are you suggesting given the budget figure set out by Tony? I don't think he is saying he wants everything. I read him to be saying that he would like the best he can get within the budget he has available.

    I thought Robin's suggestion was extremely helpful and a very realistic option.
    Donald.

    I never suggested it wasn't helpful....

    I said that my comment was not against any of the three Cameras suggested. And throw in entry level Pentax's and Sony's as well. Or Micro 4/3 like the G3

    My comment was about the Tamron 70-300. I think the purchaser would be better just buying a body and single lens and then save up and buy a better telephoto lens. It is also I'm sure a decent lens BUT I'd suggest saving up and buying a Tamron 70-300 VC or Canon/Nikon/Pentax/Sony alternative.

    There was a wonderful article on theonlinephotographer blog about we all take bunny steps to get where we want and end up spending a lot more than if we had saved up - mea culpa!!

    cheers

    Pete

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    Re: Which Camera Bundle for Novice?

    as to the IS/VR/VC/OS/OIS debate

    as someone said you can't always use a tripod.... Catehdrals? National Trust Houses etc. I'd rather have it than not.

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    Re: Which Camera Bundle for Novice?

    Quote Originally Posted by black pearl View Post
    The thing is just saying a Canon/Nikon/Sony/Pentax/Olympus/Panasonic...etc is a great camera doesn't help. In this thread Tony says he has a 600 budget, if you are going to reply then give him a Camera and Zoom Lens thats fits his budget and a reason why you think it is a good choice.
    The thing is its true. Honestly!! Many cameras have the same sensor!! e.g. Sony A55 and Nikon d5100 and others.

    Go to a shop and hold the cameras. Look at the user interface how you change aperture and and shutter speed. Look at the range of lenses (and if you want to shoot wildlife you'll end up looking at Nikon and Camera).

    Look at the screens the 1100D and D3100 have pretty low resolution screens. The 600d and D5100 have much higher resolution screens.

    Look through the view finders.....

    After all that .....

    Canon 600d with 18-55IS or Nikon d5100 with 18-55VR both PUSH the budget ..... and buy other lenses later
    why? Both manufacturers have good range of lenses both off good image quality and good high iso performance....

  15. #15
    Black Pearl's Avatar
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    Re: Which Camera Bundle for Novice?

    Lenses with VR/IS/VC/OS tend to be four times the price of the basic Tamron 70-300mm - yes they are better but a budget is a budget and it's pointless telling someone they should buy something they may not be able to afford. The cost of the Tamron in the Jessops bundle is about 60 - no one can say that isn't a bargain and even if the OP progresses in their photography and decides they want a better lens in the future they can flog the Tamron on eBay and it will have cost the pretty much zilch.

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    Re: Which Camera Bundle for Novice?

    Quote Originally Posted by black pearl View Post
    Lenses with VR/IS/VC/OS tend to be four times the price of the basic Tamron 70-300mm - yes they are better but a budget is a budget and it's pointless telling someone they should buy something they may not be able to afford. The cost of the Tamron in the Jessops bundle is about 60 - no one can say that isn't a bargain and even if the OP progresses in their photography and decides they want a better lens in the future they can flog the Tamron on eBay and it will have cost the pretty much zilch.
    If you notice I did not say to buy a VR/IS/VC/OS just to save up. I do appreciate that it is a very old fashioned concept these days though......

  17. #17
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    Re: Which Camera Bundle for Novice?

    Quote Originally Posted by thequacksoflife View Post
    Go to a shop and hold the cameras. Look at the user interface how you change aperture and shutter speed...
    Tony admits to being a novice looking for his first dslr bundle.

    The sort of comment quoted above often arises (probably from experienced dslr users) but is, in my opinion, pretty pointless for a novice - I know from recent experience. As I wrote recently in another similar thread - "Having had a new dslr for a few months, it now seems obvious to me that you cannot appreciate the ergonomics, etc., of a camera until you have been using it regularly for quite some time."

    In many forums on many web sites we also regularly see quotes of the type - "It's not the camera, it's the person using it that makes the photo..." - then we go on to read yet more and more about Nikon and Canon.

    Of course I express bias towards Pentax, unashamedly and determinedly so, and those who use Sony, Panasonic, etc., should do the same, because novices will read mainly about only Nikon and Canon based systems (and it appears Tony might already have been brainwashed!), simply because the majority have one of the Big Two and know of nothing else.

    To repeat my suggestion for Tony, please look at the Pentax K-r bundle (see post #11) - one hell of a good body and TWO very capable and useful focal range lenses for a novice, at a price that leaves enough cash for SD cards, filters, a bag and a tripod. Then if at some stage you want to upgrade or even change brands, there are shops in the UK like SRS that will give a fair part-exchange price for your kit.

    Philip
    Last edited by MrB; 12th January 2012 at 08:30 AM.

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    Re: Which Camera Bundle for Novice?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrB View Post
    The sort of comment quoted above often arises (probably from experienced dslr users) but is, in my opinion, pretty pointless for a novice -
    I'm getting a complex

    the problem is how many of us HONESTLY can say that Brand A is better than Brand B? How many of us have really had the time to test a Canon 1100D vs a Nikon D3100 vs a Pentax K-R vs a Sony A33?? All we are really saying is Buy X because that's what I did....

    Any of the the cameras Tony asked about or has had recommended are fine cameras but I'll ask the question, have any of you compared them against each other.... if you have then Tony should listen to that person first....

    Tony take the cameras you've had recommended go to dpreview / dcresource / imaging resource and look at samples and compare the pros and cons....

    actually out of interest what is it with filters....? http://bythom.com/filters.htm i love #19 and #20 I find it odd to see someone with a 10 filter who then doesn't attach a lens hood.

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    Re: Which Camera Bundle for Novice?

    Quote Originally Posted by thequacksoflife View Post
    Any of the the cameras Tony asked about or has had recommended are fine cameras...
    Agreed.

    But Tony is a novice looking for good "bundle" to get started. And bearing in mind, "It's not the camera, it's the person using it that makes the photo...", can anyone find a better, more versatile bundle than the Pentax K-r, with cash left to get useful (some essential) extras, to fit Tony's budget?

    Philip

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    Re: Which Camera Bundle for Novice?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrB View Post
    Agreed.

    But Tony is a novice looking for good "bundle" to get started. And bearing in mind, "It's not the camera, it's the person using it that makes the photo...", can anyone find a better, more versatile bundle than the Pentax K-r, with cash left to get useful (some essential) extras, to fit Tony's budget?

    Philip
    There was a story told against Ken Rockwell.

    All the cameras Ken rated best he put Nikon on, those not good enough for Nikon were labelled Canon and those not good enough EVEN FOR canon had pentax put on them

    And Phillip there is nowt wrong with the Pentax. If I didn't shoot wildlife I might have bought a pentax years ago....

    Tony query for you - what do you intend to shoot??

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