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Thread: Ruin - for Critique

  1. #1

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    Ruin - for Critique

    I posted another version of this in one of the mini BW competitions a couple weeks ago... hope it's not a breach of etiquette to ask for some feedback now..?!
    This is my first for critique, after spending many hours reading and learning a bit here. What a great forum and site..!

    (The images are linked from SmugMug, Largex2, which I think is about 1280 px on the long side....hmm, the Direct Link option didn't work, so I've posted links instead... I'll have to work that out later!)

    http://iancds.smugmug.com/Spaces/Rui...071577_t42f8MW

    There are a few aspects I'm looking for feedback on...
    One of the main ones is that I have some specific questions about post-processing:
    I use Lightroom 3... I also have PS CS5 (my wife 'bought' them for me - well, I paid - when she was a student! ), but I haven't got round to learning much at all in PS yet. (seems v. complicated - I'll have more time soon)

    I've been learning about sharpening, and making adjustments to BW mix.

    Version 2
    http://iancds.smugmug.com/Spaces/Rui...3_qpvLpMg-A-LB
    I've dropped the blue in this pic, to get more texture into the sky, but there is a point (seems to be around -60 in this) where dropping it further causes what looks like white (& maybe is related to?) chromatic aberration at points of high contrast like the branches against the darker sky to the top of the picture mid-left and the right wall of the piece of ruin on the right, as in the second image.

    The point at which this has occurred seems to be affected by other adjusments I've made, like reducing the radius for sharpening: that seems to have given me more leeway for reducing the blue channel, as I think the edge effect was starting to come in at about -45 before I did that, though I lost track of the adjustments a bit (I also increased brightness and contrast).

    So, one question is: what are the factors that cause this kind of edge effect in LR? I'd like to darken the sky more, as in the second image, but without those white edges.
    Second question is about the radius in LR3. It's limited to a minimum of 0.5 pixels. The tutorial on sharpening here at CinC indicates that it's possible to go lower than this (maybe in ACR6?). Are there advatages to taking some of the post-processing into ACR, rather than doing all in LR? When do you know whether the extra time is worth it?

    I'm particularly mindful that I don't want to get the balance wrong in time spent on PP and know I need to get out and take a lot more pictures / practice, but haven't had much opportunity recently (and the weather and light's been very dull), so have been experimenting and learning a bit of PP just now.

    Finally, any comments on the pic is welcome. I know I've pushed the second too far and the white artefacts detract. I've also pushed green and yellow channels up, to white some of the grass.

    Many thanks, and a Happy New Year for the 'morrow.

    Ian
    Last edited by IanCD; 1st January 2012 at 01:50 PM. Reason: Replaced files I uploaded to SmugMug yesterday with original size files: updated links in post

  2. #2
    John C's Avatar
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    Re: Ruin - for Critique

    I noticed the glow effect in the branches and other areas. Its noticeable but not too bad in the smaller file versions. It seems most noticeable in your largest file size but it doesn't seem to be everywhere, which make it a little puzzling. To evaluate what is going on, we probably need more information about the sequence of changes and what the parameters are. I only use Lightroom for file management and I do Raw conversion using DxO followed by editing with Picture Window Pro, so I'm not that familiar with Lightroom used for "developing" but the overall process is the same. It does a very good job correcting lens aberrations and applying an initial capture sharpening. I'm wondering if you might be locally increasing the effects of sharpening by making later adjustments. Also, did you resize the photo and apply a sharpening again on the output?

  3. #3
    Moderator Dave Humphries's Avatar
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    Re: Ruin - for Critique

    Hi Ian,

    I think we'd need to see the colour shot SOOC, or perhaps better still, some colour crops (at 1:1, or 100% with no downsize) from the areas of concern to fully advise.

    Regarding direct linking, you need an image url that ends in ".jpg" - I tried, but couldn't get one from your links above because SmugMug have disabled right clicking.

    Cheers,

  4. #4
    TonyCooper's Avatar
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    Re: Ruin - for Critique

    Others may provide more helpful replies to you LR questions, so I'll just
    comment on the composition. Because of the angle from which you've
    taken the shot, you won't have that nice, stark, black and white
    against-the-sky look to the image. The trees on the left are directly in
    front of the ruin and they have a lot of small branches blocking the view
    of the ruin.

    Consequently, you have a mass of structure with no detail showing. I
    can see how you've gone for a silhouette, but it would be more dramatic
    if you had gone further up the hill before framing the image.

  5. #5

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    Re: Ruin - for Critique

    Hi Dave,
    Thanks
    What is 'SOOC'?
    Happy to post the Raw file... I'll work out how to do that after a sleep..!
    Ian

  6. #6
    JPS's Avatar
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    Re: Ruin - for Critique

    Hi Ian,
    just seen the New Year in with family and now cannot sleep. Anyhow without stepping on Dave's toes SOOC is an acronym for Straight Out Of the Camera.
    Happy New Year to you and all the members of CiC

  7. #7
    Moderator Dave Humphries's Avatar
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    Re: Ruin - for Critique

    Quote Originally Posted by IanCD View Post
    Happy to post the Raw file... I'll work out how to do that after a sleep..!
    Hi Ian,

    Yes, I could diagnose from that if easier, do you have a favourite large file transfer method?

    If not, Mediafire seems to work, at least from the receiving end.

    Hi John,

    No broken toes, quite the opposite; thanks for answering sooner than I could.

    Cheers,

  8. #8

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    Re: Ruin - for Critique

    Hi Dave, I'd never heard of MediaFire so thanks for that (seems a bit faster than DropBox which I've tried before)
    The raw (.NEF) file is here: http://www.mediafire.com/?c9a8qa6avfsvuiy
    Ooops, wrong pic
    Okay, that's the right pic now
    I've also replaced the files I'd uploaded to SmugMug with original size files (I forgot to uncheck downsizing when I exported them from LightRoom before)
    Ian
    Last edited by IanCD; 1st January 2012 at 02:08 PM. Reason: Added URL for (correct!) raw file

  9. #9
    Moderator Dave Humphries's Avatar
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    Re: Ruin - for Critique

    Hi Ian,

    OK, thanks - I have the RAW open in CS5 and I can see some Chromatic Abberation (CA), which is the cause of these halos.

    Somewhat unusually (a first in my experience), not only is there horizontal red/cyan CA, seen easily at the left and right edges with tree branches against the sky, there also appears to be a yellow/blue on the buildings (more in the middle of shot). Most odd, but then I have probably never seen a RAW from such a W/A lens before, could well be this is normal.

    I enabled CS5/ACR auto lens correction, for the Nikon 12-24mm f/4, which I assume is the lens used, and it virtually solves the CA problem.

    Regarding your earlier question about sharpening radii; even ACR 6 only goes down to 0.5px, so I leave capture sharpening until I open each image in CS5 (or Elements), where I can use the recommended 0.3px.

    Cheers,

  10. #10

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    Re: Ruin - for Critique

    Thanks Dave,
    So - setting aside composition issues for now (but thanks for the feedback, folks) - in terms of workflow it would make sense to:
    • open for initial capture sharpening in Photoshop
    • save and reimport to Lightroom (and turn off further capture sharpening in LR)
    • apply lens correction in LR (or do that in PS)
    • continue from there in LR with exposure, fill light, BW conversion etc

    I know PS is more than capable of making those last adjustments, but I'm just beginning to get to grips with all the tone adjustments in LR (exposure, fill light, recovery, brightness, contrast, etc)... I think I'd need a workshop on PS to even begin making effective use of it..!
    Ian

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