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Thread: Lightroom 3.5 - Here begins a journey ...

  1. #1

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    Lightroom 3.5 - Here begins a journey ...

    Adobe popped a kind offer of LR3 for AUD $124 into my inbox, so I thought "what the heck" - so here begins a journey!

    Trying to get my head around catalogs - so I created a new catalog - imported a bunch of photos from a recent shoot - closed LR3 down - moved the originals off of my Solid-State Drive (where I only keep them temporarily, as space is limited) - and now when I start LR3 I get a message "The Folder Could Not Be Found".

    Am I correct in assuming that once a set of images have been imported into a LR3 catalog, one cannot then ever move them (or rename their folder where they were originally stored) or it breaks the catalog?

  2. #2

    Re: Lightroom 3.5 - Here begins a journey ...

    Whodathunkit?


    Quote Originally Posted by Colin Southern View Post
    Adobe popped a kind offer of LR3 for AUD $124 into my inbox, so I thought "what the heck" - so here begins a journey!


    Trying to get my head around catalogs - so I created a new catalog - imported a bunch of photos from a recent shoot - closed LR3 down - moved the originals off of my Solid-State Drive (where I only keep them temporarily, as space is limited) - and now when I start LR3 I get a message "The Folder Could Not Be Found".


    Am I correct in assuming that once a set of images have been imported into a LR3 catalog, one cannot then ever move them (or rename their folder where they were originally stored) or it breaks the catalog?



    You simply have to re-link them to LR, Colin because LR has no idea to where you moved those files. Click on the question mark of an image. It will ask if you want to locate the file. Navigate to the external drive, click on the folder and—voilà! All pixs in the catalogue are linked.


    Here is a tutorial: http://tv.adobe.com/watch/adobe-evan...nd-the-finder/

  3. #3

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    Re: Lightroom 3.5 - Here begins a journey ...

    Colin, once you have imported images into your Lightroom catalouge, you can move and rename anything in the catalouge but you have to do it from within Lightroom (don't move things around in your windows directory OR you will have to try the solution Viana posted). Generally selecting the images or the folder(s) in the LR library mode and right clicking will give you the options you are looking for.

    Wendy

  4. #4

    Re: Lightroom 3.5 - Here begins a journey ...

    There is no problem moving things. You simply have to relink them. I move stuff all the time from my computer to a back-up drive.

    BTW, Colin you must have imported those files and checked "Import photos at their current location" in the File menu, which is good. No need to make copies.


    Remember that LR is a database. There is no actual file, other than the original, until you export. If you move a folder be sure to take the side-car XMP files along because those contain all of your LR adjustments.

    You should also know where the LR database and backups are located.

    You can work on your photos even if they are offline.

  5. #5

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    Re: Lightroom 3.5 - Here begins a journey ...

    Thanks Viana,

    OK - been studying up on this ...

    Seems like I have a couple of choices ...

    1. I can add the photos to the catalog, but then if I ever move the source it breaks the catalog and I have to relink it (inconvenient, but not a show-stopper), but if I read this right, then, all of the adjustment data is then stored in the catalog/database, which is seperate to the location of the original files? (if so, that's just plain scary -- I'd then have to backup the entire catalog anytime I made any changes to any files, or risk losing the edits), and would be a nightmare moving files between PCs.

    2. I can copy the files to the catalog in which case the catalog is going to quickly grow into Terabytes of data (unless I do a new catalog for each shoot/project), but it STILL appears to tie in all of the edits in the same database - so I'm guessing that if that catalog / database got a corruption (that perhaps may get detected until it's already been backed up) then I risk losing all my edits for the entire catalog, not just a single file as it is now. Which isn't ideal either. Plus it doubles the space required to store the images

    All I want to do is to store a bunch of DNGs on my SSD - edit them (as ACR would) - then be able to move them off the SSD to a HDD RAID array and have the photos & ACR edits go as 1 collection.

  6. #6

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    Re: Lightroom 3.5 - Here begins a journey ...

    Quote Originally Posted by ScoutR View Post
    Colin, once you have imported images into your Lightroom catalouge, you can move and rename anything in the catalouge but you have to do it from within Lightroom (don't move things around in your windows directory OR you will have to try the solution Viana posted). Generally selecting the images or the folder(s) in the LR library mode and right clicking will give you the options you are looking for.

    Wendy
    Thanks Wendy,

    I think I'm starting to understand it -- just not liking what I'm learning -- doesn't fit in with my established workflow at all, and just seems like it's either going to either require a lot of effort to keep backed up, or just be downright dangerous.

  7. #7

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    Re: Lightroom 3.5 - Here begins a journey ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Viana View Post
    If you move a folder be sure to take the side-car XMP files along because those contain all of your LR adjustments.
    The main reason I moved to DNG was to get rid of sidecar files - please don't tell me I have to use them with LR?

  8. #8

    Re: Lightroom 3.5 - Here begins a journey ...

    No, no, and no, Colin.


    As I mentioned, LR is a data base—only a DB. It does not grow into terabytes even if you have 100,000 pixs in there. You do not have actual copies of your photos in LR. The DB is generally only MB. As my previous post mentioned you must take the XMP sidecar file with the folder that you move because that contains your LR adjusts. This is generally not a problem because it will be right in the folder next to the file.


    Edit a couple of photos and see what happens.


    I presume that you backup regularly? If so, then you have the LR catalogue on your back-up drive.


    You can also set LR to back-up the DB every time you start-up or shut down. Don’t forget to delete the LR backups every once in a while.

  9. #9

    Re: Lightroom 3.5 - Here begins a journey ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Colin Southern View Post
    The main reason I moved to DNG was to get rid of sidecar files - please don't tell me I have to use them with LR?

    Are you familiar with the acronym: RTFM?


    Begin at the beginning.

    Quote Originally Posted by Colin Southern View Post
    ...I think I'm starting to understand it -- just not liking what I'm learning -- doesn't fit in with my established workflow at all, and just seems like it's either going to either require a lot of effort to keep backed up, or just be downright dangerous.

    Colin, LR is very, very popular with millions of photographers and extremely useful. There is nothing complicated or dangerous about it. It requires little effort. Just set your preferences.


    Begin at the beginning.


    The workflow is very simple. You merely have to get over the Bridge-Photoshop mindset and try something new.


    Below is a synopsis from photographer, author, teacher, lecturer Julieanne Kost outlining the advantages of a Lightroom+Photoshop vs. a Bridge+Photoshop workflow.


    Advantages of Lightroom & Photoshop Workflow:


    GENERAL
    • Ease of Use
    • Elegant Interface
    • Photo-centric Features


    ORGANIZE
    • Database Driven
    • Compare/Survey View
    • Keyword Suggestions and Lists
    • Efficient Filters/Collections
    • View Offline Files


    DEVELOP
    • Crop/Straighten
    • Virtual Copies/Snapshots
    • Interactive Preset Previews
    • Before/After Views


    ENHANCE
    • Edit in or Open Presets go to Photoshop


    OUTPUT
    • Third Party Plug-ins
    • Template driven batch printing
    • Video/PDF Slideshow output
    • Publish Web Galleries


    _____________________


    Advantages of Bridge & Photoshop Workflow:


    GENERAL
    • Multi-user Workflow
    • Design-centric Features


    ORGANIZE
    • File Browser
    • String Substitution/Rename


    DEVELOP
    • Numeric Adjustments


    ENHANCE
    • Photo retouching, layers, special effects in PS


    OUTPUT
    • Save as PDF file with Security
    ___________________________


    Check out the whole, in depth lecture:


    Julieanne Kost helps you decide which application is right for your workflow by explaining the differences between Lightroom and Bridge for managing images and assets. http://tv.adobe.com/watch/the-comple...oom-or-bridge/
    ________________


    Here is a large collection of some of the best Lightroom and Photoshop tutorial videos: http://jkost.com/index.html

  10. #10

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    Re: Lightroom 3.5 - Here begins a journey ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Viana View Post
    As I mentioned, LR is a data base—only a DB. It does not grow into terabytes even if you have 100,000 pixs in there. You do not have actual copies of your photos in LR. The DB is generally only MB. As my previous post mentioned you must take the XMP sidecar file with the folder that you move because that contains your LR adjusts.
    Well I ain't seeing any sidecar files.

  11. #11

    Re: Lightroom 3.5 - Here begins a journey ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Colin Southern View Post
    Well I ain't seeing any sidecar files.
    As I said, relink to the catalogue. Do a couple of adjustments and the XMP side-car files will appear in the catalogue folder.

  12. #12

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    Re: Lightroom 3.5 - Here begins a journey ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Viana View Post
    Are you familiar with the acronym: RTFM?
    Yes.
    The workflow is very simple. You merely have to get over the Bridge-Photoshop mindset and try something new.
    I don't mind trying something new - but so far I gotta say that the Bridge/ACR workflow is a LOT more straightforward.

    Below is a synopsis from photographer, author, teacher, lecturer Julieanne Kost outlining the advantages of a Lightroom+Photoshop vs. a Bridge+Photoshop workflow.


    Advantages of Lightroom & Photoshop Workflow:


    GENERAL
    • Ease of Use
    • Elegant Interface
    • Photo-centric Features


    ORGANIZE
    • Database Driven
    • Compare/Survey View
    • Keyword Suggestions and Lists
    • Efficient Filters/Collections
    • View Offline Files


    DEVELOP
    • Crop/Straighten
    • Virtual Copies/Snapshots
    • Interactive Preset Previews
    • Before/After Views


    ENHANCE
    • Edit in or Open Presets go to Photoshop


    OUTPUT
    • Third Party Plug-ins
    • Template driven batch printing
    • Video/PDF Slideshow output
    • Publish Web Galleries


    _____________________


    Advantages of Bridge & Photoshop Workflow:


    GENERAL
    • Multi-user Workflow
    • Design-centric Features


    ORGANIZE
    • File Browser
    • String Substitution/Rename


    DEVELOP
    • Numeric Adjustments


    ENHANCE
    • Photo retouching, layers, special effects in PS


    OUTPUT
    • Save as PDF file with Security
    ___________________________


    Check out the whole, in depth lecture:


    Julieanne Kost helps you decide which application is right for your workflow by explaining the differences between Lightroom and Bridge for managing images and assets. http://tv.adobe.com/watch/the-comple...oom-or-bridge/
    ________________


    Here is a large collection of some of the best Lightroom and Photoshop tutorial videos: http://jkost.com/index.html
    Yes - read through these last time you posted them, thanks.

  13. #13

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    Re: Lightroom 3.5 - Here begins a journey ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Viana View Post
    As I said, relink to the catalogue. Do a couple of adjustments and the XMP side-car files will appear in the catalogue folder.
    Well they aren't there. I must admit to being at a complete loss as to why they'd use sidecar files when the originals are in a DNG format (which was created to get rid of sidecar files).

  14. #14

    Re: Lightroom 3.5 - Here begins a journey ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Colin Southern View Post
    Yes.


    I don't mind trying something new - but so far I gotta say that the Bridge/ACR workflow is a LOT more straightforward.

    How can you say that when you know nothing about LR yet?


    If you actually learn to use LR then you might feel differently. I have never met anyone who would go back—that is IF they really learned to use LR—which, BTW, should only take a couple of days vs. god-knows-how-long to master Photoshop.


    Check out Julieanne Kost’s tutorials or just view any of the gazillion LR tutorials on the web.


    The skilled can sort, cull, crop and adjust about 100 photos in one hour. LR is fully integrated with PS. Backups are automatic.

  15. #15

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    Re: Lightroom 3.5 - Here begins a journey ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Colin Southern View Post
    Thanks Viana,

    OK - been studying up on this ...

    Seems like I have a couple of choices ...

    1. I can add the photos to the catalog, but then if I ever move the source it breaks the catalogue and I have to relink it (inconvenient, but not a show-stopper), but if I read this right, then, all of the adjustment data is then stored in the catalogue/database, which is separate to the location of the original files? (if so, that's just plain scary -- I'd then have to backup the entire catalogue anytime I made any changes to any files, or risk losing the edits), and would be a nightmare moving files between PCs.

    2. I can copy the files to the catalogue in which case the catalogue is going to quickly grow into Terabytes of data (unless I do a new catalogue for each shoot/project), but it STILL appears to tie in all of the edits in the same database - so I'm guessing that if that catalogue / database got a corruption (that perhaps may get detected until it's already been backed up) then I risk losing all my edits for the entire catalogue, not just a single file as it is now. Which isn't ideal either. Plus it doubles the space required to store the images

    All I want to do is to store a bunch of DNGs on my SSD - edit them (as ACR would) - then be able to move them off the SSD to a HDD RAID array and have the photos & ACR edits go as 1 collection.

    Colin, I am too inexperienced to advise on what you are trying to do, BUT I would say you are on the right track re the catalogue. Below is an exerpt from the Kelby Lightroom Book

    "All the changes, edits, keywords, etc., you add to your photos in Lightroom are stored in your Lightroom catalogue file, so as you might imagine, this is one incredibly important file. Which is also why you absolutely need to back up this catalogue on a regular basis, because if for some reason or another your catalogue database gets corrupted - you're completely hosed. (Of course unless you backed up your catalogue, in which case you're not hosed at all) The good news is Lightroom will back up this catalogue for you, but you have to tell it how. "

    You might also want to lookup "Syncing Catalogues on Two Computers" don't know if that will help you but there is a step by step in the Kelby book. (It's too long for me to type out, but might be helpful - not sure???? )

    Glad you brought this up, I back up my catalogue on a regular basis, but now it's got me thinking how this actually works and that I should be backing up after every session - hmmmm

    Good Luck, I'm sure you'll get it sorted out. Wish I could be of more help

    Wendy

    Edit: there were a lot of posts while I typed this one sooo my apologies if I've said something that doesn't fit in with the replies that have been posted
    Last edited by ScoutR; 25th November 2011 at 04:23 AM. Reason: see edit

  16. #16

    Re: Lightroom 3.5 - Here begins a journey ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Colin Southern View Post
    Well they aren't there.
    Perhaps they are still in the original folder on your computer or you deleted them?


    I must admit to being at a complete loss as to why they'd use sidecar files when the originals are in a DNG format (which was created to get rid of sidecar files).

    In your mind only, Colin. I don’t know where you got that bit of misinformation.


    The DNG format is rather like a PDF file—theoretically, universally readable across platforms. However, it has nothing to do with LR adjustments and meta data. Those are contained in the data base and side-car XMP files.

  17. #17

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    Re: Lightroom 3.5 - Here begins a journey ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Colin Southern View Post
    Well they aren't there. I must admit to being at a complete loss as to why they'd use sidecar files when the originals are in a DNG format (which was created to get rid of sidecar files).
    Hey guys, I'm sure there is a misunderstanding here. Lightroom does NOT create sidecar files for DNG format. All adjustments and metadata are embedded in the DNG file. If you find a separate XMP file then I'm going to be really confused.

    Wendy

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    Re: Lightroom 3.5 - Here begins a journey ...

    Colin:

    It seems to me that you are getting some very good advice from Viana and Wendy. I suggest that it's worth taking.

    I started with LR1 and am using LR3 now - and just migrated it to a new computer (but that's a whole 'nuther story and fortunately it ended reasonably well).

    Respectfully I think what you are experiencing is the learning curve of a new situation - it's not comfortable at all - in time you'll wonder what so difficult.

    LR was developed by photographers for photographers. Photoshop was developed for graphic artists and photographers found it useful. I think this tells us something.

    There is some very good help here:

    http://jkost.com/lightroom.html

    Glenn

    On the matter of DNG files, they are really very much like a RAW file - and similar in size (actually a bit smaller but can include the original RAW which will make them larger).

    http://www.jmg-galleries.com/blog/20...hat-i-use-why/
    Last edited by Glenn NK; 25th November 2011 at 04:46 AM.

  19. #19
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    Re: Lightroom 3.5 - Here begins a journey ...

    Colin - I'm new to Lightroom as well but Lightroom has a function to export your files to DNG format and I believe it will keep the changes you made from what I've read. What you may be able to once you've finished your edits on your Solid State Drive (assuming you're editing there for speed and performance purposes) is to export your updated files into DNG format on to your RAID array (create a Collection under Harddrive that's linked to your RAID File Structure, drop them in there and export to DNG.

    Once there in there, I suspect you'll probably have to re-import them into the same or a separate catalog after you remove the originals from your solid state drive.

    Again - not experienced with Lightroom - just with how computers and programs work so you might be able to give that a try without messing around with moving catalogs and sidecar files.

  20. #20

    Re: Lightroom 3.5 - Here begins a journey ...

    Colin, the problem that I see is that you have gotten off to a wrong start. First things first, as I said.




    You do not understand that LR has one, master catalogue (at least in the beginning) that should be residing on your external drive. You do not make a new catalogue for each photo shoot import. For those, you will use folders.


    Here is a video tutorial to teach you how to set up your master catalogue: http://thelightroomlab.com/2010/06/g...alog-creation/




    In LR like any program you must first set your “Preferences” before you do anything else. In LR you must also set your Catalogue Settings, which are under the “File” menu. You may also want to set up an identity plate and presets for metadata.




    Here are a ton of tutorials on Getting Started in Adobe Lightroom 3: http://www.adobe.com/support/photosh...ted/index.html




    Quote Originally Posted by ScoutR View Post
    Hey guys, I'm sure there is a misunderstanding here. Lightroom does NOT create sidecar files for DNG format. All adjustments and metadata are embedded in the DNG file. If you find a separate XMP file then I'm going to be really confused.


    Wendy



    Wendy, according to Adobe: In order for changes made in Lightroom to be recognized by other applications, metadata must be written to XMP.”




    “File information is stored using the Extensible Metadata Platform (XMP) standard. XMP is built on XML. In the case of camera raw files that have a proprietary file format, XMP isn’t written into the original files. To avoid file corruption, XMP metadata is stored in a separate file called a sidecar file. For all other file formats supported by Lightroom (JPEG, TIFF, PSD, and DNG), XMP metadata is written into the files in the location specified for that data. XMP facilitates the exchange of metadata between Adobe applications and across publishing workflows. For example, you can save metadata from one file as a template, and then import the metadata into other files.
    Metadata that is stored in other formats, such as EXIF, IPTC (IIM), and TIFF, is synchronized and described with XMP so that it can be more easily viewed and managed.




    Specify where to write metadata changes




    Lightroom automatically writes adjustments and settings metadata to the catalog. You can also instruct Lightroom to write the changes to XMP. In order for changes made in Lightroom to be recognized by other applications, metadata must be written to XMP.





    1. Choose Edit > Catalog Settings (Windows) or Lightroom > Catalog Settings (Mac OS).








    1. 2. Click the Metadata tab, and then do either of the following:
      • To write adjustments and settings metadata to XMP, select Automatically Write Changes Into XMP.
      • To write adjustments and settings metadata only to the catalog, deselect Automatically Write Changes Into XMP.


    If you don’t write adjustments and settings metadata to XMP automatically, you can select a file and choose Metadata > Save Metadata To File.






    Save metadata changes to a file manually




    To manually save metadata changes to a photo in Lightroom, do one of the following:





    • Select one or more photos in the Grid view of the Library module and choose Metadata > Save Metadata To File(s), or press Ctrl+S (Windows) or Command+S (Mac OS).
    • Click the Metadata File Needs To Be Updated icon Lightroom 3.5 - Here begins a journey ... in a thumbnail in the Grid view of the Library module, and then click Save.
    • If you’re working with a DNG file, choose Metadata > Update DNG Previews & Metadata to save metadata changes to the file and also generate a preview based on the current raw processing settings."

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