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Thread: 77mm wide angle filter v. regular filter

  1. #1
    aleta17's Avatar
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    77mm wide angle filter v. regular filter

    Hi all,

    I currently use a Canon EOS Rebel XSi with several lenses, one of which is a Tamron SP AF 17-35mm f/2.8-4 Di LD Aspherical. I recently purchased a wide angle filter set for the lens and discovered that I cannot attach the lens cover when a filter is attached as there are no external threads.

    Reading some reviews on Amazon.com, B&H Photo, and Adorama Camera, some indicate that there are no threads on a wide angle filter to avoid vignetting at the widest angle, therefore not allowing a lens cap to be attached.

    I also have one 77mm 812 warming filter for this same lens which is not "wide angle" and cannot seem to see the difference when using a wide angle filter as opposed to the regular filter. I like being able to attach the lens cap while a filter is in use as it is somewhat troublesome to have to remove the cap and attach a lens filter everytime I want to use the camera/lens.

    I have viewed images on my computer taken with both lens filter types and the difference appears to be negligible.

    Anyone have any suggestions, tips, advice, history, experience with wide angle v. regular filters on a 77mm? I have about 3 days left to return the wide angle set and was wondering if I should purchase a regular set so I can attach the lens cap while a filter is in use.

    Thanks for any and all advice you may be able to provide.

    Laura

    P.S. I attempted to upload two sample photos, one with the WA filter and one without but am not sure they were successfully attached. This is my first time posting for some assistance and attempting to attach photos.

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    Moderator Dave Humphries's Avatar
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    Re: 77mm wide angle filter v. regular filter

    Hi Laura,

    To investigate the WA filters, do you have the link to the product from the 'store' you bought it from? That would help us see exactly what they are.

    Now for the pictures;
    To get you started, we'll use the imageshack facility here, using the "Upload your images to ImageShack" panel below the Message box when replying to me;
    0) Make sure the file isn't too big, about 50 - 300kB as a jpg is fine (stick to 1000 pixels width max, or 680 is ideal in many ways)
    1) Click "Browse" button and find where the first picture is on your computer's hard disk (HDD)
    2) Highlight the file and click the "Open" button
    3) Now click "Host It" and wait a little while
    4) You should now have a new tab or window open with the image shack picture in
    5) Highlight all of the text inside the topmost orange box (the one that says "Direct link to image" alongside it and copy all this text to the clipboard (e.g. right click and Copy, or Ctrl+C on keyboard)
    6) Go back to the CiC tab/window and your message
    7) Find the little icon that looks like a tiny picture and a plus sign, when you hover the mouse over it, it should say "Insert Image", now click it
    8) Now use Ctrl+V to paste the text into the pop up that opened (leave the http:\\ highlighted so that gets replaced)
    9) Click OK to close the pop up
    10) This will have inserted the copied text between two IMG tags, don't edit inside these
    11) Repeat steps 1 - 10 for the second picture, it takes far longer to describe than do

    Only when you post/submit will you actually see the pictures (unless you click "Go advanced")

    Hope that helps and wasn't too over-simplified, look forward to seeing the pictures,

  3. #3
    aleta17's Avatar
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    Re: 77mm wide angle filter v. regular filter

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Humphries View Post
    Hi Laura,

    To investigate the WA filters, do you have the link to the product from the 'store' you bought it from? That would help us see exactly what they are.

    Now for the pictures;
    To get you started, we'll use the imageshack facility here, using the "Upload your images to ImageShack" panel below the Message box when replying to me;
    0) Make sure the file isn't too big, about 50 - 300kB as a jpg is fine (stick to 1000 pixels width max, or 680 is ideal in many ways)
    1) Click "Browse" button and find where the first picture is on your computer's hard disk (HDD)
    2) Highlight the file and click the "Open" button
    3) Now click "Host It" and wait a little while
    4) You should now have a new tab or window open with the image shack picture in
    5) Highlight all of the text inside the topmost orange box (the one that says "Direct link to image" alongside it and copy all this text to the clipboard (e.g. right click and Copy, or Ctrl+C on keyboard)
    6) Go back to the CiC tab/window and your message
    7) Find the little icon that looks like a tiny picture and a plus sign, when you hover the mouse over it, it should say "Insert Image", now click it
    8) Now use Ctrl+V to paste the text into the pop up that opened (leave the http:\\ highlighted so that gets replaced)
    9) Click OK to close the pop up
    10) This will have inserted the copied text between two IMG tags, don't edit inside these
    11) Repeat steps 1 - 10 for the second picture, it takes far longer to describe than do

    Only when you post/submit will you actually see the pictures (unless you click "Go advanced")

    Hope that helps and wasn't too over-simplified, look forward to seeing the pictures,
    Dave,

    Here's the link to Adorama Camera and the kit I purchased.
    http://www.adorama.com/TF77WAK.html?...gle+filter+kit

    Here are the photos - just something I took quickly from my backyard - please don't critique me too much - apologize for the lens flare I forgot the hood. I don't see any vignetting - do you? I took four more comparison shots at about 24mm and 35mm. Same results.

    Thanks, Laura

    Taken with the Tiffen regular 812 filter at 17mm
    77mm wide angle filter v. regular filter

    Taken with Tiffen WA Enhancing filter at 17mm
    77mm wide angle filter v. regular filter

  4. #4
    Moderator Dave Humphries's Avatar
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    Re: 77mm wide angle filter v. regular filter

    Hi Laura,

    Glad to see the pics working OK now.
    That's some backyard, lots of space in North Arizona then?
    That's so not like england, the sort of place I only see in movies.

    Back to the task in hand; in this instance, compared to your 812, there isn't any vignetting is there?

    If you send back the WA ones and get ordinary, there is a small risk of the replacements having a deeper thread than your 812 has, the effect is only going to be visible at 17mm and can be corrected in PP if necessary.

    There's lots of stuff here in threads about the desirability of leaving say a UV on permanently as a front element protector. then you'd add a Circular Polarizer (CPL) when needed, but when you stack like that you will almost certainly see vignetting at 17mm, but since CPLs are less useful at wider angles for darkening skies, because of gradient effects, it may not be a big problem.

    The only other thing to bear in mind is if you might buy another even wider lens, and if that was a 77mm thread, these might be useful - a bit of a long shot though.

    Cheers,

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    aleta17's Avatar
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    Re: 77mm wide angle filter v. regular filter

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Humphries View Post
    Hi Laura,

    Glad to see the pics working OK now.
    That's some backyard, lots of space in North Arizona then?
    That's so not like england, the sort of place I only see in movies.

    Back to the task in hand; in this instance, compared to your 812, there isn't any vignetting is there?

    If you send back the WA ones and get ordinary, there is a small risk of the replacements having a deeper thread than your 812 has, the effect is only going to be visible at 17mm and can be corrected in PP if necessary.

    There's lots of stuff here in threads about the desirability of leaving say a UV on permanently as a front element protector. then you'd add a Circular Polarizer (CPL) when needed, but when you stack like that you will almost certainly see vignetting at 17mm, but since CPLs are less useful at wider angles for darkening skies, because of gradient effects, it may not be a big problem.

    The only other thing to bear in mind is if you might buy another even wider lens, and if that was a 77mm thread, these might be useful - a bit of a long shot though.

    Cheers,

    Dave,

    Thanks for the review. Yes, there is lots of space in Northern Arizona - we live on 3.5 acres which is about average for our area. Some homes are on 5-10 acres others on 1.5 - 2 acres. Not sure I could handle closed in places for very long. But I guess we all get used to our surroundings.

    I stacked the enhancing filter (no threads) on top of the 812 (threads) and did not see a noticeable difference. Will probably return the WA filters and purchase regular. If, and that's a big if, I purchase a wider lens I'll deal with the issue then.

    Do you have a sample of obvious (and maybe subtle) vignetting that I could see so I know what I'm looking for in the future?

    Oh yeah, PP? Photoshop?

    Thanks again, Laura

    Stacked filters - enhancing filter w/o threads on an 812 w/ threads
    77mm wide angle filter v. regular filter

  6. #6
    Moderator Dave Humphries's Avatar
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    Re: 77mm wide angle filter v. regular filter

    Hi Laura,

    That was quick!
    Unusually for England, our afternoon sky looked a lot like yours today!

    PP is just shorthand for Post Processing, doesn't have to be Photoshop, there's plenty of others, what do you use?

    There's a few examples on Wikipedia's entry for Vignetting.

    For another example of this and other lens defects, have a look at the eagle pictures on our own CiC tutorial page for Camera lenses, you need to move your mouse over each of the defect names below the right hand picture to see them.

    All these examples are a bit too obvious really, in my experience, it been just the very corners and quite well defined.

    Good luck with the swap,

  7. #7
    aleta17's Avatar
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    Re: 77mm wide angle filter v. regular filter

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Humphries View Post
    Hi Laura,

    That was quick!
    Unusually for England, our afternoon sky looked a lot like yours today!

    PP is just shorthand for Post Processing, doesn't have to be Photoshop, there's plenty of others, what do you use?

    There's a few examples on Wikipedia's entry for Vignetting.

    For another example of this and other lens defects, have a look at the eagle pictures on our own CiC tutorial page for Camera lenses, you need to move your mouse over each of the defect names below the right hand picture to see them.

    All these examples are a bit too obvious really, in my experience, it been just the very corners and quite well defined.

    Good luck with the swap,

    Dave,

    Thanks again for the info. I'll check out the tutorials. Wikipedia had some good examples. I have Photoshop as well as the Canon software that came with the camera kit. I'm not very good at PP work and will have to do some experimenting as time allows.

    Thanks, Laura

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    Re: 77mm wide angle filter v. regular filter

    @ Aleta17, your area could easily be mistaken for quite a few parts of Australia.

  9. #9
    aleta17's Avatar
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    Re: 77mm wide angle filter v. regular filter

    Bill,

    So I've been told before. I've been here for a little over 21 years. Born in NYC and raised in New Jersey. Quite a culture shock going from 3.5 rooms in lower Manhattan to 3.5 acres in AZ. Best move I ever made! Would like to visit Australia - perhaps after retirement.

    Laura

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    Re: 77mm wide angle filter v. regular filter

    Quote Originally Posted by aleta17 View Post
    Anyone have any suggestions, tips, advice, history, experience with wide angle v. regular filters on a 77mm? I have about 3 days left to return the wide angle set and was wondering if I should purchase a regular set so I can attach the lens cap while a filter is in use.
    Hi Laura,

    Great to have you with us.

    The purpose of slim (aka "WA") filters is to reduce vignetting (as you already know) - but the "slim advantage" really only kicks in when using a full frame camera; you're using a crop-factor camera, which means that the glass towards the outside of the lens doesn't get used - so you won't see any difference between regular and slim filters.

    Some slim filters do have front threads (eg Heliopan SH-PMC UV) and it's possible to attach a regular lens cap to these (I use them all the time).

    In your case I'd suggest simply sticking with regular filters unless you plan on upgrading your camera to something like a 5D / 5D2 / 1Ds3 etc.

    Does this answer your question?

  11. #11
    aleta17's Avatar
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    Re: 77mm wide angle filter v. regular filter

    Quote Originally Posted by Colin Southern View Post
    Hi Laura,

    Great to have you with us.

    The purpose of slim (aka "WA") filters is to reduce vignetting (as you already know) - but the "slim advantage" really only kicks in when using a full frame camera; you're using a crop-factor camera, which means that the glass towards the outside of the lens doesn't get used - so you won't see any difference between regular and slim filters.

    Some slim filters do have front threads (eg Heliopan SH-PMC UV) and it's possible to attach a regular lens cap to these (I use them all the time).

    In your case I'd suggest simply sticking with regular filters unless you plan on upgrading your camera to something like a 5D / 5D2 / 1Ds3 etc.

    Does this answer your question?
    Hi Colin,

    Yes, it does. I only wish I had found this site and asked the question prior to purchasing the WA filters. I now have to send them off for a return and order the regular filters. Oh well, just a small hassel in the grand scheme of things.

    Truly enjoying the site and all the helpful hints and helpful people. Think I'll be with you guys for a while.

    Laura

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    Re: 77mm wide angle filter v. regular filter

    Hi Laura,

    Glad we could help. Just keep the questions coming, and we'll do our best to keep answering them

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