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Thread: An interesting concept...perhaps...

  1. #1

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    An interesting concept...perhaps...

    This isn't an accusation of misdoings but rather a keen observation: Wouldn't it be fun to have a Mini Comp where no one knew how many votes an image was receiving during the time frame allowed for voting, or who did the posting until the competition results were posted? I often wonder how many people vote by the influence of those who voted before them, by virtue of who made the shot, or where the shot was made. Sometimes, I win Mini Comps when I know my image is not the strongest or best but for some reason, the image begins to take on a life of its own and shoots way past the others. It's both silly, and embarassing - as odd as that may seem.

    I don't want to "win" because of the popularity of what "others" might think, or by virtue of who I am (which would surprise the heck out of me), or anything other than the quality of the work I submit; I don't think any of us do.

    Can this type of voting be made to happen?

  2. #2
    arith's Avatar
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    Re: An interesting concept...perhaps...

    or even completely secret can't do that anyway cos I can tell Colin's or Yan's or yours a mile off. Well maybe not yours.

  3. #3
    FrankMi's Avatar
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    Re: An interesting concept...perhaps...

    I agree with Chris. Although I try to view the images on their own merits when I see some of the images I think 'Oh, that looks like XYZ's work' so I peek at the photographer and I'm no longer truely unbiased.

    I would prefer to just see the image and title when while the voting is occurring.

    Also - Other than your own (just in case you need to edit), I don't think any of the images should be viewable until the voting starts. Often, I've looked at the stable of images and think I can't compete with that and childishly hold my submission for the next competition.

  4. #4
    Sam Smith's Avatar
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    Re: An interesting concept...perhaps...

    That is a good idea. I know I can't see the vote tally until I have voted. It would not make a difference anyway because it is all subjective to the one voting as to their favorite style or composition gender. Colin reference it once that the most votes are for landscapes, micros and the one offs. Portraiture normally comes in last. Every once in a while another category wins.

  5. #5
    rpcrowe's Avatar
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    Re: An interesting concept...perhaps...

    This is just an off-beat observation. There are some mini comps that have so many, IMO, good/great images that I have a difficult time deciding which one I like best (it is nice that I can vote for more than one image). However, there are also mini comps in which I am not really impressed with any of the images.

  6. #6
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    Re: An interesting concept...perhaps...

    I agree with Frank and Chris and find myself doing the exact same things.

  7. #7
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    Re: An interesting concept...perhaps...

    Actually Chris it is one reason I stopped contributing to comps some time ago now. I don't like comps anyway but as a member I thought I should participate. I had felt for some time people voted by name rather than print. Some very good prints were submitted by new and up and coming members but didn't receive the recognition of popular members work, which on some occasions I felt was not as good.

  8. #8

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    Re: An interesting concept...perhaps...

    Hi Folks,

    A few random thoughts ...

    Hiding "votes already cast until the poll closes"

    - I don't have a problem with this personally. Not sure if the system can handle it, but I'll find out.

    Keeping entries anonymous

    - I don't have a problem with this either, but I don't think the system can handle it.

    Often, I've looked at the stable of images and think I can't compete with that and childishly hold my submission for the next competition.

    Please, feel free

    I think it's important to remember that we're running a tiny little comp on a tiny little website in a tiny little part of cyberspace. If people want to enter strategically, I'm sure nobody will remember in 5 week - 5 days - 5 hours - or even 5 minutes

    It would not make a difference anyway because it is all subjective to the one voting as to their favorite style or composition gender. Colin reference it once that the most votes are for landscapes, micros and the one offs. Portraiture normally comes in last. Every once in a while another category wins


    Very true. People vote using their own criteria (I lot like elections I assume!). (Sometimes I'm "at a loss" to understand just what some of those criteria are, I might add), but the "will of the people" always prevails when it comes to voting

  9. #9
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    Re: An interesting concept...perhaps...

    As long as the voters are active members of the forum, it's fair play. I believe they (we) all vote for photographs according to personal tastes and not for "names", so hiding the names wouldn't make a difference. Bad photographs almost always get no votes, so it's very objective at this end of the scale, plus it gives incentive to photographers to put more effort to their work and do their best next time. The rest get 20% and up of the votes and this is a win, no matter who actually won the competition. Besides, we all have a chance to freely comment afterwards.

  10. #10

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    Re: An interesting concept...perhaps...

    Interestingly enough, I have never entered a gallery photo competition where the names of the competitors were shown or the number of votes they received until the winners were announced on awards night. I know that in another thread, there was a discussion about whether eye contact made a difference in portrait competitions and that particular part of judging comes down to judges' preference. The last one I entered, you were immediately marked down if your work wasn't over colorcast toward the orange side, and wasn't huge. Go figure.

    It was just a thought...no worries.

  11. #11

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    Re: An interesting concept...perhaps...

    Quote Originally Posted by MiniChris View Post
    The last one I entered, you were immediately marked down if your work wasn't over colorcast toward the orange side, and wasn't huge. Go figure.
    It kinda reminds me of an argument I had with the owner of an aeroplane I used to fly. He said "Colin, frankly, it's none of your business what I choose to do with my aeroplane" to which my immediate thought was "and it's none of YOUR business which plane I choose to fly which, incidentally, won't be yours in future".

    Somewhat not surprisingly, I don't waste my time with real-world competitions anymore; I prefer "commercial success" over "artistic success" (rather have the $$$ in the bank!).

  12. #12
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    Re: An interesting concept...perhaps...

    I thought the whole point of these was to have some fun without having to wait a month for results.
    Not to mention encouraging people to go out and shoot.
    I guess I was wrong.

    Oh well ...

  13. #13

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    Re: An interesting concept...perhaps...

    Quote Originally Posted by sleist View Post
    I thought the whole point of these was to have some fun without having to wait a month for results.
    Not to mention encouraging people to go out and shoot.
    It is.

    I guess I was wrong.
    Nope, you're 100% correct. Not sure what makes you think otherwise?

  14. #14
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    Re: An interesting concept...perhaps...

    It IS about having fun. I'd much rather enter an image that I had fun making and share it with others to see if they like it as well than to have to follow a strict set of rules about what I can and can't enter - to me, that's more like work than fun. Don't get me wrong, I work at having fun, I just prefer to work at something I'm enjoying!

    The mini's may not be perfect but then nothing is perfect. Even with it's few little wrinkles, it is a lot of fun!

  15. #15

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    Re: An interesting concept...perhaps...

    Hi! As a newbie here, I just wanted to add my 2 cents if I may? I really enjoy the mini-comps. They go so fast...unless you've posted an image in one...then it seems to take forever. But it is fun to see what others are doing and be inspired. And it's nice to be able to post an image and not feel you will be C&C'd but rather letting the votes let you know how good your image is. A themed mini-comp might be fun too...nothing specific...but "nature", "portraits", "animals", "macro". Either way, I love this site!
    Last edited by gaelicsea; 24th October 2011 at 04:19 PM.

  16. #16

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    Re: An interesting concept...perhaps...

    I am also a Newbie here and I've entered a few mini comps now, i've had a couple of 2nd places and a few um..... lesser places At first I got a little disheartened by it, however after a while it just gave me the incentive to go out and take better shots, i'm determined to get a 1st placer even if it takes me a lifetime and the only obvious conclusion to this is that I should (in theory) improve my photography no end. Even if I never get a 1st placer at least i'm still enjoying photography, which, after all is what its all about.

  17. #17
    Moderator Dave Humphries's Avatar
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    Re: An interesting concept...perhaps...

    We did try some Themed ones once, but do bear in mind that the more varieties you have, the slower they go, because by and large, the number of entries will remain constant and just be spread around more.

    Some themed varieties could take weeks to reach their 10 and people may lose interest.

    I must admit I have got out of the habit of entering after a few 'no/low votes' disappointments

    Cheers,

  18. #18

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    Re: An interesting concept...perhaps...

    Maybe a couple of people can 'recognize' another person's work but I can't (unless it's a subject that person has been repeating for a few days/competitions). Regardless, I actually vote for the picture(s) I like most, irrespective of who the photographer is. Maybe, for those that DO recognize there is a creeping bias in how they vote?

    Using nothing more than a quick scan of the first two pages of mini-comp results suggests that an average (I did not do the math, this is a guesstimate) of 350 views (of which I'm assuming, all are unique) for each mini-comp.
    Looking only at the first page of mini-comp (non-monochrome) there appears to be an average of 55 votes in each one. So are only (roughly) 55 people voting out of...400+ members?

    If it's (roughly) the same 55 people each time (and I"m one of then), the bigger question then is how to get the REST of the members involved and voting. Failing that I think it can become a rather incestuous group where voting becomes more popularity-based than talent-based. And to the point of this discussion, maybe for those newer members who are as of yet somewhat 'insecure' about being a member or posting their work, maybe they base their decision on that magic number beneath every member's name: Posts 74. After all, those that are in the hundreds...or the thousands, MUST be the better photographer.

    One final (lighthearted) note: I think the only thing that trumps a photo of an attractive young lady is one of a child, both of which trump the B&W of an older/elderly man(a), woman(b), which trumps anything flying, which trumps anything closeup, which trumps anything sunsetty/sunrisey, which trumps landscape, which trumps...well, whatever is left.

    How about voting based on a rating system of 1-5, where 1= ! and 5=!!!!! (or something similar, maybe 1-3).

  19. #19

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    Re: An interesting concept...perhaps...

    i quite like the mini comp because they happen so fast, i once said that i wont enter if a good picture is already up but that was only in joking mode, i guess that you would feel more proud to win against tough competition,i vote for what i like and also what seems like a good photo irrespective of subject matter,i like the idea of voting for more than one photo,i wouldnt vote tactically and never look to see what the score is before i cast a vote,the only thing i dont do (and maybe i should in the future) is message a pic poster and mention what i thought let it down at the final hurdle, i know critiquing takes a lot of time and some folks dont like to be told but sometimes i look at a bad pic with loads of out of focus stuff in the main foreground and think to myself that just by cropping closer and losing all that bad stuff would turn it into a great vote winning pic,
    its a fine line between understanding why you are a loser and someone else is a winner and i feel that you cant always learn by your mistakes,
    on the other hand we already have post your pic areas so maybe if someone thinks their pic should have done really well or just want some opinions they could always post it in those forums and ask what went wrong ?
    just my thoughts, sorry for rambling,lol, cheers martyn

  20. #20
    ddp4me's Avatar
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    Re: An interesting concept...perhaps...

    Chris,

    I often wonder how many people vote by the influence of those who voted before them, by virtue of who made the shot, or where the shot was made.
    When I pull up the Poll screen, I can't see how many votes there are for a specific photo until after I vote. I do sometimes see who made the shot and where they are from but try not to take that into consideration when voting. Not sure if it would make a difference if it was hidden.

    I think one of the reasons you win so often is that you enter so often and your shots are of such good quality. (And don't get the dumb idea of not entering, please)

    This is a good thing.

    For one, it encourages all to participate more (I need to take my own advice).
    Second, it challenges us to try to better your submissions and a little friendly competition is a good thing to help us grow.

    I don't want to "win" because of the popularity of what "others" might think, or by virtue of who I am (which would surprise the heck out of me), or anything other than the quality of the work I submit; I don't think any of us do.
    Thirdly, I think you win because of "the quality of the work [you] submit".

    In other words, keep up the great work and keep us all on our toes!

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